how did river get the gun?

POSTED BY: est120
UPDATED: Friday, November 25, 2005 09:09
VIEWED: 20571
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GIANTEVILHEAD

Friday, November 4, 2005 9:24 PM

River didn't just get secrets from people's heads, she "felt" Zoe and Wash but she didn't get anything from Kaylee.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

MIRAMEL

Friday, November 4, 2005 11:06 PM

gilthanass, i defanitly like that idea. seems plausable

FREDIKAYLLOW

Sunday, November 6, 2005 12:19 PM

i think the whole mind detachment thing is probably the most plausible explanation, i just have one small problem- i don't think the gun went off. it might be that fact that Mal said the gun was fully loaded, though i don't know if that means that the clip was full, or just not not empty. also, i think that the crews reaction's would have been even more extreme had she actually fired the gun.
Is it just me, or does her line "It's just an object, it doesn't mean what you think" not quite seem right?? It just seems that that whole beginning is an insight into her mind, and then she comes out with this cryptic comment that's a little bit... i dunno. maybe I'm just reading into things a bit too much.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

ALAND

Friday, November 11, 2005 6:21 AM

As Early was following them, he probably moved in shortly after they left a planet. The gun was hidden away in the cargo bay, or had fallen behind a crate or slid under something and was forgotten. A bumpy exit from the planet's atmosphere jarred it loose, and it slid out into the open. River was the first to find it.

REDREAVER

Saturday, November 12, 2005 1:04 PM

i'd be inclined to believe Jayne. if there's one thing he's smart enough not to like it's the idea of the crazy girl with a gun.

if the blame went to Jayne, must have been his weapon.

and if we all remember in Out Of Gas there's a gun in holster slung on the mule in the cargo hold, i presume loaded.

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

SHREW

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:51 PM

Serenity is a pirate/merc/smuggler ship. I am quite sure while a gun would not be left "laying around" that there are some strapped in specific places in case of on board ugliness. I do seem to remember Mal (when the ship was derelict in space) getting a gun that was strapped to a container. Even Inara has a gun. I think everyone had a gun EXCEPT the Tams.
Jayne is not going to lie to Mal about something that is basically trivial to him. He takes care of his weapons. He would not leave them laying around and nor would he deny which are his. Guns cost money. If anything if it WAS his gun he would use the incident as an excuse to further his cause to kick the Tams off the ship. While he never accepts blame he will subtly admit the truth while throwing the blame on someone else.
As far as River entering a fugue state and stealing the gun... No. When she has her spells they tend toward violence not petty theft.

Shrew

LILKRISTY

Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:58 PM

Quote:
Fredikayllow said
i don't think the gun went off. it might be that fact that Mal said the gun was fully loaded, though i don't know if that means that the clip was full, or just not not empty. also, i think that the crews reaction's would have been even more extreme had she actually fired the gun.

I thonk you have a good point. Maybe the twig snapping is the sound of the gun being cocked.

I like the whole program being set off too. That seems to mesh the best with what we know about Serenity and River.

I just can't picture a gun lying on the floor of the cargo hold in plain sight for any legenth of time. Also, while Jayne migh not be the brightest bulb in the box I can think that a mercernary who casually left guns lying around fully loaded would live very long.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:22 PM

I agree that it wasn't her (in body) goin' around the ship, so who knows WHERE she really was *COUGH/into Jayne's guns*- excuse me.
It seems to me she has a mind that is not only capable of multi-tasking, it demands to be used so. The leaves and twigs could have been all the stuff in the ship she came across, and that twig-snapping sound could have been the lock on a gunbox being forced in Jayne's room, and then she walked on a bit more before being spotted...

Chrisisall

SCHOONER

Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:41 PM

IMHO, the whole sequence makes a great deal of sense if you view River as an incomplete weapon who's training programs can operate without her conscious understanding, and assume she has a sort of ability to separate her mind and body.

In the opening shot, River wakes up when she 'hears' Early's voice. She immediately recognizes a threat, not just an unexpected presense, and responds as a weapon. Her training kicks in to orchestrate a defense. This has three parts: determine if any other threats exist; obtain necessary equipment; and find a location from which to receive the threat. Requesting assistance is not part of the plan because River's creators planned her for more covert ops than police or military (I'm of that opionion for a few reasons, but there're not that important here).

Part one involves using River's psychic abilities to read the state and intentions of exeryone else in the area, to fully assess the extent of the threat she is already aware of. This requires judgement, emotion, and knowledge of people, so this is where River's personality is allocated. We see her 'projecting', and seeking out the rest of the crew. River's problem is that she is not fully aware of why she is doing it, or even that she is doing it. Her programming is telling her to probe for hidden agendas, so she is getting everyone's secrets even though she doesn't know why.

Part two requires physically optaining something without anyone noticing. No personality is needed, just a body. River's body is probably on automatic pilot like at the Maidenhead, except in 'insertion mode'. Sneaking around using a route so she won't be seen by anyone, she gets to the weapons locker, or Jayne's bunk, and selects the best weapon for the task. A semi-automatic handgun makes sense here. With the skill and precision River has, she doesn't need autofire. Range is not a factor onboard ship. She needs something that she can aim quickly, in order to change targets, and that packs enough of a punch to damage what she hits and maybe cut through armor. So, Jayne's bug shiny pistol fits the bill.

Part three, location, is why River ends up in the middle of the cargo bay. For river with a pistol, it is the most defensible location. She has an open space around her, and line of sight to all entrances. No low ceilings or vents for an enemy to drop from. Anyone wanting to get close would have to cross her line of fire to get to her.

So far, a good plan. The problem comes when River's mind and body come together again. She is not a complete programmed weapon, she is an innocent, scared girl. When River re-integrates, she does not know what to make of what her subconscious has been doing. My speculation is that when her mind and body meet up, she drops the gun and that is the soud she interprets as a twig snapping. It is also what alerts the rest of the crew. The hallucination of twigs and petals may be River trying to interpret whatever programming is still running in her head: collating variables, constructing fractal decision trees, and formulating contingency plans. Her statement, "it's just an object" may be her acknowledging to herself that this is not real, that she needs to bring herslef back. When she does come back fully, she's holding a loaded gun and her freinds are freaking out.

I think River is a victim of her programming, and her incomplete knowledge of what she is capable of. If she had been 'completed' like her captors wanted (unconscionable as that would be), she might have just stayed, unmoving, in the middle of the cargo bay with a gun hidden on her until Jubal Early peered into the bay, then shot the bounty hunter through the eye before he knew what was happening.

Just my take on it.

SLOWSMURF

Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:35 PM

Wow.

I can only hope Joss thought that far ahead, because that's good. The only part I might disagree on is defensible location, though for River it might be. It's one of the worst places on the ship she could be otherwise.

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