God is an Iraqi
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 29, 2025 20:41
VIEWED: 12402
PAGE 9 of 12
I believe in the immortality of time. From how I change the earth to my most private decisions, none will ever be undone in all time. Time's arrow and all.
This is real immortality.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Simply and beautifully put.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I think western religions are all essentiall judaism with a new set of shoes.
But who is this Yhwh guy? A lot of people say "Oh yeah, God is good. I worship Him" etc. But you look through the book. God is Bush. He tortures the children, bombs the cities. He hates knowledge, he loves suffering and death. He pushes for genocide many times. He hates the environment. This is a pretty evil religion.
Jesus. I don't really have a gripe with. Jesus had some good ideas, but he was putting reform on top of a really bad religion.
I'm a Taoist because I've read a lot of stuff on various religions, and this was the only one I've picked up where I said "Hey, this guy (Lao Tse) really has a grasp on the nature of the universe." Not a feeling I get from the major western religions at all.
I don't know much about Buddhism though. It's the only one I really never got into.
Oh, then maybe you'll like this. Or else you're going to write me off as a complete freak, which I hope doesn't happen. I believe that Yhwh was an impersonator. Someone naughty impersonating a deity. I don't believe the big G -ever- tells people to do anything in that 'or else I won't love you' way. Of course, I don't believe the big G is a person type manifestation either, which Yhwh clearly was. I think there's lots of G in other parts of Christianity, but none at all in the bossy bits. (Sacrifice your son to me to prove your love? I don't think so!)
Jesus, yeah, had superpowers, and he told a darn good story. And sometimes a darn confusing story. Have you read any Lawrence Gardner? I've read a fair bit of grail lit over the years, and I like his better than anything else I've come across. He has keys to the basement libraries of the Vatican too, so he can do real research, not just guerilla research. Very interesting watching him peel the onion. He knows a fair bit about ancient languages and he makes some very interesting revelations about mistranslations. Also, he goes into the symbolism of the Essene branch of Judaism, which was very much a factor in the stories...'angel' is a title (as in personal designation) to the essenes...as are loaves and fishes...water into wine has a specific translation relating to doctrine rather than miracle as well. 'Mary', 'Martha', 'Joseph', 'James' and many other names are designations of position or relationship in the Essene hierarchy. I highly recommend Gardener. Even after all the other grail reading I've done, there was much revelation for me in Gardner's writings, and a rejoicing in the simple and obvious truths behind door number 2.
Lao T I know only through the Tao writings. I also like Rumi very much. The inspiration and bliss you can experience by reading ecstatic poets is a wonderful thing. Though Lao Tse's voice in the Tao is very subdued (compared to Rumi), I find both of them irrestible in their enthusiasm for the world, and in their simple brushstrokes of heartpiercing beauty and joy.
Buddhism, yeah. I like that one most of all, but still with the problems, dang it. I'm just picky, like my religion to be without sin, ha ha. I think Buddhism errs in the extremity of the striving for non-attachment (which too easily becomes apathy). I think what Buddhism might be saying is strive for a neutral compassion: rather than trying to exorcise the ego, I think it might work better to try and tame the ego with love. The other thing I don't care for in Buddhism is the 'life is pain' part of the doctrine. See, I believe we create our own reality, and if you go around believing pain, yup, you can have plenty of that. Otherwise, I really like the way Buddhism explains the nature of being.
I add yoga for the practice of breathing (which I believe can be used to grow oneself into a calmer, more aware and compassionate personna), balance (physical, mental and emotional balance), and the strength to sit in meditation without going insane or cramping up.
I also add a few ayurvedic techniques which seem to help with yoga and meditation, and with not c
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Well, here's the logical fallacy christians miss:
here's my bogus conv. between Mr. Jesus Freak, and Mr. Commie Atheist
JF: God is the creator.
CA: How do you know?
JF: God tells me so?
CA: How do you know God isn't lying?
JF: Because God never lies.
CA: How do you know that God never lies?
JF: Because the Bible tells me so.
CA: Who wrote the Bible?
JF: God.
CA: So essentially you're taking God at his own word that he never lies and then believing everything he says?
JF: But the bible is never wrong.
CA: How can you be sure?
JF: Because the Bible says so.
etc.
Of course Yhwh isn't the creator, but saying that means you're saying God is a liar, which he is, almost as much as Bush. Actually, God is a genocidal lunatic. How do I know? The Bible tells me so.
Lao Tse is really very pragmatic. Like a romantic pragmatist. Some people follow a jewish carpenter, I follow a chinese librarian.
I'm not familiar with Lawrence Gardner. I see Jesus as a spellcaster, a trickster. Spells are real, they're just someone doing something that the audience doesn't understand. It can be simple magic tricks, or very advanced science. The ancient celtic Druids and Witches had access to some very advanced sciences, far more than the people around them. This was because they had studied and kept secrets for thousands of years, whereas the surrounding people were ignorant, illiterate and heavily superstitious.
Jesus or his counterparts through history, sure could do miracles, but miracles are just spells. He can say he's the son of God, but so can I. Who's to say that I'm not?
Eastern religions have many practical applications, like martial arts and meditation. So-called western religions really lack merit. They believe in favors from a fictional deity, and a code of conduct that leads to racial genocide.
I have a lot more respect for the European Pagan traditions, and those of native americans.
What it all comes down to is what you create, and what you destroy. If you destroy, you're the bane of the creator, and so essentially you condemn not just yourself, but the world, to hell. If you create, create responsibly, that what you create lives on and does not destroy.
Any faith placed in a bogus afterlife become the justification for efforts which might be very destructive. The Bibles whole "go forth, take the earth, it's your. Rape it" in the words of Ann Coulter, but pretty much that exactly what the Bible does say, is just incredibly destructive. God is evil. Yhwh is evil. He's at least as bad as socialism.
We have to be wary to not fall into that trap. In any effort to replace the great carrot, the dangling reward fo eternal life and glorious salvation from the hogwash fantasy faith of the whole Judeo-Christian set, we must be careful not to do the same thing. Effort towards something other than creation is quite possible effort towards destruction, or at least apathy. If your quest for immortality creates medical treatments that will ultimately be used by people, than great, you are a creator, but if your efforts for immortality draw people out of science, and into the pursuit of some fiction, like Falun Gong, then you are the destroyer.
I think all viewpoints on faith are valid. Relatively you have to believe that most of the western world's belief structure is based on the basic premise that as the result of the imagined love of a random jew for people who were not yet born, a man who may or may not have been been nailed to a cross - Now you must all without exception live lives without fun so that you can die and give some church your money. Now after you die, you'll get lifted up into white cloud land, which will be like being drugged out in a psych ward. Otherwise, a big bearded guy who lives in space will stomp everyone into dust, and one fo his disgruntled former employees will torture everyone for ever. So fall in line damn it.
That idea, as a reflection of the way things really are, is profoundly flawed, and just about anything else is bound to do a better job of it.
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Quote:So....you liked the movie Constantine, huh?
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
a big bearded guy who lives in space will stomp everyone into dust, and one fo his disgruntled former employees will torture everyone for ever. So fall in line damn it.
Chrisisall
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I thought Constantine was tedious but the archangel was well cast and acted. As an aside, I also thought Cate Blanchett as Galadriel was a well acted non-human being.
I've found something of value in several different religions. Tao and the Gospel of Thomas are the two favorites of what I've read. (And I have certainly NOT made a study of this, just casual random reading decades ago.)
What the Tao does for me is to frame the universe in its proper non-human terms.
And I thought Jesus was originally going for something akin to Buddhism - put away petty wants and fears (and also that OT god of war and vengeance) or else "... you are that poverty". But the religion ABOUT Jesus swallowed up the religion OF Jesus. And also it never really ditched the OT, which is why supposed followers of Christ are still arguing about which OT 10 commandments are the real ones, instead of the two that Christ preached in the NT.
I think religion is the story we tell ourselves to help us deal with the world. When people started farming our human world got significantly different and many new religions were born.
My personal philosophy is 'just enough', reflective of current human technology. Assuming humans reduce their numbers, day-today survival is not in doubt for anyone. There is enough - more than enough - to go around. In contrast, running society on greed and fear is madness and ultimately suicidal. I find parallels in this with both Buddhism and the Gospel of Thomas. Put away fear and greed, or the society you form will be one of poverty and death.
Just my musings on the topic.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Chris,
I didn't see Constantine, so I don't really get it. I was clearly being facetious of course.
Rue,
I really agree. I think Jesus whether or not he had ideas of his own was clearly trying to bring some outside religious ideas from his travels and studies to the Israelites. I'd say given what we know he said, Zoroastrianism was the strongest influence, but there were likely others.
But the problem with christianity was that it was only an attempt at reform, and carried the whole sacred text of zionism along for the ride. And I really don't mean this in an anti-semitic way. But that book has some bad ideas in it. Some good ideas too, but a lot of evil can be justified from that book.
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Thanks for the reply.
I do wonder what hole Christianity filled/fills in society, for it to have survived this long. Otherwise we would be making offerings to Zeus.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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I see that for some, Christianity contains the purest message, that of us all being one under our creator. I have no idea what hole it fills for the ones infected with greed or hatred, other than it's being a possible salvation at the end.
Constantine was interesting, but not that good.
Good to see you around, Rue.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Of course Yhwh isn't the creator, but saying that means you're saying God is a liar, which he is, almost as much as Bush. Actually, God is a genocidal lunatic. How do I know? The Bible tells me so.
Lao Tse is really very pragmatic. Like a romantic pragmatist. Some people follow a jewish carpenter, I follow a chinese librarian.
I'm not familiar with Lawrence Gardner. I see Jesus as a spellcaster, a trickster. Spells are real, they're just someone doing something that the audience doesn't understand. It can be simple magic tricks, or very advanced science. The ancient celtic Druids and Witches had access to some very advanced sciences, far more than the people around them. This was because they had studied and kept secrets for thousands of years, whereas the surrounding people were ignorant, illiterate and heavily superstitious.
Jesus or his counterparts through history, sure could do miracles, but miracles are just spells.
Eastern religions have many practical applications, like martial arts and meditation. So-called western religions really lack merit. They believe in favors from a fictional deity, and a code of conduct that leads to racial genocide.
I have a lot more respect for the European Pagan traditions, and those of native americans.
If you create, create responsibly, that what you create lives on and does not destroy.
Any faith placed in a bogus afterlife become the justification for efforts which might be very destructive. The Bibles whole "go forth, take the earth, it's your. Rape it" in the words of Ann Coulter, but pretty much that exactly what the Bible does say, is just incredibly destructive. God is evil. Yhwh is evil. He's at least as bad as socialism.
Falun Gong
I think all viewpoints on faith are valid.
Now you must all without exception live lives without fun so that you can die and give some church your money.
Otherwise, a big bearded guy who lives in space will stomp everyone into dust, and one fo his disgruntled former employees will torture everyone for ever. So fall in line damn it.
and from RUE:
thought Constantine was tedious but the archangel was well cast and acted.
Tao and the Gospel of Thomas are the two favorites of what I've read.
What the Tao does for me is to frame the universe in its proper non-human terms.
But the religion ABOUT Jesus swallowed up the religion OF Jesus. And also it never really ditched the OT
I think religion is the story we tell ourselves to help us deal with the world.
I find parallels in this with both Buddhism and the Gospel of Thomas. Put away fear and greed, or the society you form will be one of poverty and death.
DreamyT
I was also saying that I believe Yhwh isn't god, at all. Imposter through and through. The old testament is largely the voice of this destroyer, and I always find it interesting that the NT pasted on top is much more of an attempt at finding a more compassionate method, though it was crushed into a fairly unintelligable mush by the RC Church.
The concept I have of G is the sum of all that is, not a personality, and certainly not a manipulator. Allowing, letting the elements of creation make their own choices (and I'm not just talking about people here, but rocks and green things as well).
I really like Lao, in case that didn't come through. Pragmatic is a good word for it, I also like his quiet bliss through observation of the 10,000 things.
Gardner has plenty to say about JC and friends manipulating the whole situation to put him in power, and there was chemical assistance in the form of 'daily bread'. Spellcasting, most assuredly. Miracles that turn out to be misaprehension of Essene titular designations. Later there were other aberations foisted on the public by the Roman Church, which was all about taking the power away from the people and putting it in the hands of a Roman priestly heirarchy. You might enjoy even standing in a bookstore to read some of it. It's fairly well available right now, what with the Da
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