Firefly Episode Discussions

Where do I put "Trash"?

POSTED BY: outlander
UPDATED: Monday, June 16, 2003 19:09
VIEWED: 14651
PAGE 4 of 6

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:39 AM

That’s just the problem it has to be last, but it wasn't. Even if they changed the order before the episodes were shot I just have to know what the scripts of the later ones had to deal with Inara not leaving. What were the scenes, what did we miss? How much could we learn about the characters from how the writers planed to make her stay? She and Mal still weren’t to be lovers, so what would make her stay that wouldn’t make Mal and her make a relationship?

To me this is important, I want to know what’s going on in the characters, and after that there would be a lot going on. 18 months to a movie is too long to wait, maybe they’ll have (first draft) scripts on the DVDs, but when will we get those?

MANIACNUMBERONE

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:06 AM

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She and Mal still weren’t to be lovers, so what would make her stay that wouldn’t make Mal and her make a relationship?

I think she and Mal were to be lovers eventually, and that the potential for that would keep her on the ship.

On a side note, (to which I am unsure I subscribe yet) I have thought that HOG could very nicely fit before OIS. All of the corresponding scenes seem to match up with their characters previous actions.

I mean, you've got Inara/Mal, with Inara saying in the last scene of HOG that

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she's going to leave, and in the next scene with her, we see her in OIS with Mal, and she is saying, "I don't know why I haven't left already."

She is waiting, it seems for Mal to tell her his feelings. It is a very tense moment between them, and it seemed, to me anyway, to resemble the tension of their previous encounter in HOG.

Also, on the same thought, you've got Simon/Kaylee, in OIS all laying on top of each other,

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as though they had just had a breakthrough of some sort, like holding hands at a funeral in HOG

It feels right somehow that they should be so closely bonding in the beginning of OIS.

Also, you've got Zoe/Wash, who are also all lovey-dovey, (that's normal for them) but extra so

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because Wash almost just got shot, didn't he? In HOG? (I've only seen in once, so far, so bear with any mistakes)

Hopefully, some of that made sense to someone else besides me.

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:22 PM

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Simon and Kaylee were holding hands when Tracy was delivered to his parents in The Message. Not the funeral in Heart of Gold.

I agreed with that side note, everything fit perfect for Heart of Gold to go before OiS. But when I saw it that last scene was just to powerful to not have a larger follow up. The small conversation in the beginning of OiS was a seemed to be fitting follow-up to the script, but not the actual scene.

What I meant by the "not to be lovers" bit was that it seemed like they were either going to have to deal with their feelings for each other (which would make them lovers in the next episodes) or she was going to be gone.

It didn't seem like anything less would keep her there.

On the other hand, Mal's pychic commnet River picked up on seems to work best if Heart of Gold did just happen.

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Nandi's death would denfintely make him slip inot that kind of depressive thinking

where as at the end of War Stories he seemed happy (good to be home, back with his crew and ship, making fun of Wash, laughing with Book -not in that order) so it seems like his feelings would be a bit brighter.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:18 PM

Do you think it's possible that in Ois, when River was reading Mal's mind and he said, "None of it means a damn thing," that he was talking specifically about his meaningless sex with Nandi?

CHRISTHECYNIC

Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:44 PM

I don't think his sex with her was meaningless. But when she died I think it hit him really hard, so he might not be caring anymore, and if he doesn’t care then none of it (everything in general, the relationship he could be having with Inara specifically) would mean anything to him.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:22 PM

Mal did say, "There's no one in this room but you and me," which does indicate it was more than meaningless sex.

LEXIBLOCK

Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:57 PM

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Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
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On a side note, (to which I am unsure I subscribe yet) I have thought that HOG could very nicely fit before OIS. All of the corresponding scenes seem to match up with their characters previous actions.

Especially the 'previous on' which shows scenes from The Message...

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I mean, you've got Inara/Mal, with Inara saying in the last scene of HOG that
Select to view spoiler:
she's going to leave, and in the next scene with her, we see her in OIS with Mal, and she is saying, "I don't know why I haven't left already."

Yeah, but i think that's just general complaining, its not way near enough entense to be a continuation.
Especially since their relationship goes way up in Trash/Message - they appear to feel much warmer towards each other - i'm not sure that is a logical extension of HoG

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Also, on the same thought, you've got Simon/Kaylee, in OIS all laying on top of each other,
Select to view spoiler:
as though they had just had a breakthrough of some sort, like holding hands at a funeral in HOG
It feels right somehow that they should be so closely bonding in the beginning of OIS.

You are dreaming - they are just standing next to each other in HOG - however in "The Message" they are holding hands...

Also, people keep talking about the Sci Fi UK airing order, where can you see what it is?

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INVISIBLEGREEN

Friday, June 13, 2003 1:19 AM

I think that Sci-Fi UK is just airing them in production order, because that is what so many people requested.

And if HoG has "Previously..." clips from "The Message," then that is really weird (I haven't seen the eps yet). I guess it's possible Tim switched the order on that, too. I do remember reading an article where Tim talked about filming additional scenes for HoG after "The Message" finished filming (or possibly while), but I was under the impression that these were extra flashback scenes. Were there flashback scenes in HoG?

It's seeming likely that HoG was moved to be the end of the series and the final scene(s) were rewritten and then shot. Joss and Tim did say that "The Message" did not bring a sense of closure because they didn't expect the show to be cancelled.

Brett Matthews, who wrote HoG, was just a producer's assistant [for Joss] (or sometime like that) for "Firefly," so its unlikely that they'd give him a plot crucial ep on the first time. (Think "Normal Again" of "Buffy," a very good ep, but not so plot crucial, wriiten by Diego Guttierez, another producer's asst. for Joss. Of course, Steve DeKnight got "Blood Ties" as his first "Buffy" ep, although originally it wasn't going to be plot-centric or something.)

So my conclusion is that Tim Minear (or Joss, maybe) possibly rewrote and reshot the ending of HoG and moved it to last cronologically.

So our new order may be:

Objects in Space
Trash & The Message (in some order, probably "Trash" first)
Heart of Gold

SUCCATASH

Friday, June 13, 2003 1:22 AM

InvisibleGreen, that's the best I've heard yet. I'll give you a dollar for what you just wrote. Oh, and there are flashback scenes, to answer your question.

OUTLANDER

Friday, June 13, 2003 2:51 AM

Trash & The Message seem almost like a double episode, because the gun that they steel in Trash is the gun they are trying to get rid of in The Message.

I am downloading Heart of Gold at the moment, so I will try to work out where it goes after I watch it.

I hope Heart of Gold goes after The Message, because even though I thought The Message was a good episode I found that it ended on a bit of a downer, which I didn't think was a good tone to end the series on.