River Tam Question
POSTED BY: Summerrivers
UPDATED: Saturday, November 12, 2005 17:34
VIEWED: 11216
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
My idea for a super hero, which I still have no idea how to write for, was a powerful warrior from ancient China who was defeated and captured by a demon he swore to slay. The demon tried to turn to warrior into his servant but the warrior would not break so the demon killed the warrior with the torture known as the death of a thousand cuts. The warrior’s remains were thrown into the corpse pits but the warrior’s will was so great that when the carrion vermin devoured his remains his consciousness manifested within them. From that day on, the warrior became a writhing mass of thousands upon thousands of rats, roaches, ants, centipedes, worms, flies, and various other vermin, roaming the land fighting evil and trying to hunt down the demon who murdered him.
His “condition” is not the only thing unique about him, the only thing that sustains him is his will, it is his will that defines him, the only reason why he exists as an abomination is because of his will to continue to do what he believes is right. Of course that is also his weakness, strike doubt into his insubstantial heart, weaken his resolve, destroy his will and he will cease to exist, literally.
I wish I could draw, so I can make this guy into a comic book.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
So why doesn't his wormy forms go jump in a lake so he can be eaten by fish. Then take over the fish and have them get caught by fishermen. Take over said fishermen and become an army of demon fighting fisherman guys?
Or have the bird die near a pack of wolves and take them over. That would be far more powerful than birds and bugs and stuff.
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He exists by sheer force of will. He controls the vermin by suppressing their will and replacing it with his own. He just doesn't have the power to control more intelligent animals. There are other reasons that I don't want to reveal since I might one day write something for him. For now, just accept the explanation that it's because he can't suppress the will of more intelligent animals.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
it's because he can't suppress the will of more intelligent animals.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
One could also make a case that supressing the will of more intelligent creatures is more karmic than taking over the role of queen to hive creatures.
Since we've hijacked this thread anyway, I imagine this very concept (suppressing the will of other creatures) might give him some serious problems, both in ease of execution (power drain; containment of the insect/ratty entity), and in personal angst.
Of course I wouldn't want you to write about any ideas that could be hijacked, but I think the concept is pretty powerful, and the execution could be multiheaded, what with the temptation to slip into the attributes of the creatures he's controlling and lose control of his agenda for doing good.....hmmm ta dum hum hum hum. Just visualizing a fair bit since you brought this up last night. Not to worry though, I have a pretty hard line on absconding with other people's ideas, and my work tends to be more serene/less dynamic in composition and content, but the visualizing is fun. I keep getting these dynamic images of swarms on walls, in sewers, boiling out of dark water, in black and white with little touches of color. I'd really like to hear about it when you decide where to take this idea.
*waves superhero pennant and cheers*
Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!
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Even though I just came up with this character about a week ago, I've actually thought ahead quite a bit into the story for this guy, actually up to his confrontation with the demon who murdered him and it's not what you would expect. Let's just say that there are certain interesting revelations and the demon is not what he used to be, he ain't no philanthropist, but he’s not exactly what you would expect from the average demon, although he’s not a Buffy type demon either.
Oh and about the influence of the creatures he’s controlling, there was a period of madness after he becomes the abomination before he actually learns to fully control those vermin and truly begin to impose his will over them.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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That's actually a very interesting concept. You could maybe chronicle his history of doing battle with the demon to tie in with things like the "Black Plague" rat contagion of the middle ages ~perhaps the demon became the power behind the thrones of all the crowned heads of Europe. Maybe the Biblical plagues of old were him doing battle with ancient rulers and pharoahs who were under the demon's influence.
If there is ever a plague of locusts descending on FOX network execs, we'll know who to thank. Or maybe all the attorneys in the world suddenly get devoured by a writhing mass of roaches (the poor roaches).
Don't forget the love interest. There should be some modernday woman who reminds him of a love interest he knew in ancient China (who of course was killed by the demon). I'd personally make her an insect right's activist battling the corporate chemical companies who manufacture insecticide. Bug persecution must end.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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Whoaaaaaaa a a aaa oo a!
The zero gravity zone has entered the building (or is it that the building has entered the zgz?)
I am falling upside down now....and entering the levity zone
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
and it's not what you would expect.
there was a period of madness after he becomes the abomination
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
I like it best when it's not what I would expect, gettin' all bendy and such.
Always a good thing when there's a period of some kind of madness with paradigm shift. It usually adds to the depth and accessibility of a character.
Yeah, I'm surprised you've only been mulling this for a week. Sounds like the idea has been percolating in your back brain for some time.
Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
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The ideas about this character have been coming to me pretty fast, although I do have an idea that's been percolating in the back of my brain for some time. One thing that I’ve never liked about fantasy is how necromancers are always the bad guys. It never made no sense to me for necromancers to want to kill everyone since you need life to have death. My idea for necromancers has always been being preservers of life, because very simply, more life, more death, more undeath. My idea for a necromantic kingdom is not a barren wasteland, it’s a lively place, with lots of happy people, with the undead and golems doing most of the menial jobs, no graves since when people die they get raised, where undeath is not reviled or feared, it's just a part of life. I've even worked out a basic economic model for dealing with the dead. When someone dies, necromancers pay the family of the deceased for the corpse and raises it as a mindless undead. If the family has money, they pay the necromancers to have them raise the dead as an intelligent undead. People also pay vampires to get turned into vampires themselves and criminals are kept alive, their blood harvested to feed the vampires. A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
The ideas about this character have been coming to me pretty fast
One thing that I’ve never liked about fantasy is how necromancers are always the bad guys.
A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.
The ideas that come slamming in fullblown, are pretty often my favorite things to work.
Usually the denizens of the land of the necromancer are shortsighted and fail to plan for the future, and they have no depth whatsoever. It would be refreshing to see some city planning...What? You have created a Sims of the Dead? Will there be a Disneyland of the Dead?
One of the things I really enjoy about Joss' stuff is the great depth of emotion he allows his monsters. I find it really boring when the evil is flat. Real evil doesn't often notice it's evil, it just goes about having normal experiences, going to parties, worrying about the kids, and mowing others down along the way. When evil perceives itself, there is always justification and a perception that it's doing the necessary, or the best under the circumstances, the thing you'll thank them for later, or the motivation with no spark at all (the writer's worst choice) "I had no choice".
We are going to the special hell for people who talk in movies and hijack threads.
Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!
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Good and evil are so subjective. I generally try to think beyond the limits of those concepts. My idea for a necromantic kingdom does not concern itself with good or evil. It preserves and it endures. The kingdom will persist and grow when all others have crumbled into dust and faded from the memories of time. It preserves life, not only that but to give life thought, essence, and form even after death. That is the purpose of its being, it exists to preserve existence.
As for the demon, he was born into a world of darkness. He knew nothing but pain, anguish, suffer, rage, and hatred. He is a creature of evil, he was born into a world of evil, it is his nature, he is defined by it, it is the core of his being. There is no choice in the underworld, there is only evil but that is not the way of the mortal world. Here there is a choice, one is only evil when chooses to do evil. It takes the demon time, but he begins to understand the choice. He’s an intelligent creature; he has always known what it is to choose but as I said before there is no choice in the underworld, only evil. Now that he is in the mortal world he truly knows what it means to choose. He learns that here he is defined by his choice, not his nature. His conflict with the warrior is an interesting one indeed. The warrior is driven by a singular goal, unflinching in his will, the demon has learned the ways of the mortal world, he has learned that here will be defined by his choice not his nature. I’ve given away a bit too much but it does give you some insight into how I think.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
A wonderful, happy kingdom of undeath.
Good and evil are so subjective. I generally try to think beyond the limits of those concepts.
It preserves life, not only that but to give life thought, essence, and form even after death. That is the purpose of its being, it exists to preserve existence.
He learns that here he is defined by his choice, not his nature.
His conflict with the warrior is an interesting one indeed.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
Ok, I had to think about where is your conflict if there is no presumption of the line between good and evil (wherever you choose to draw it, and yes I believe that is a very subjective thing), but if you're going to make this be a happy place of weird death, then you create that tension in the viewer by drawing the line outside the box; somewhere out of sight of the viewer.
Cognitive dissonance. Yes, I like this very much.
You'll have some twilight zone-like challenges to maintain the tension (avoiding the hokey), but this could be a magnificent story if you twist it well.
Hmmm, yeah, I believe good/evil polarity is a factor of this plane of existance, and not so much elsewhere. The demon's would be an interesting journey to describe to say the least. I see possibilities in the interaction between the demon and the hero where the viewer could be in sympathy with the demon's perspective. Again with the dissonance, mister, I like the way you think.
I have been wandering this site for quite a while (the only fansite I've ever much visited), but it's a very different thing to de-cloak. The emotional tone has gone to so many different places since the movie opened. I'm enjoying watching the ways people choose to deal with other opinions, their own excitement and enthusiasm, or grief, or rage, the difficulties of communication with flat affect, and the pressures of the burgeoning membership. All very interesting. I like the way Haken has the site set up with a whole fistful of ways of communicating. Threads don't always suit my itch for indepth exploration of concepts, and I haven't mastered the use of the blog yet. I like the idea of being able to hang out and yack around a fire in this abandoned echoing thread. I've been an SF fan forever, but this site is the first time I've ever encountered so many wildly creative, funny, brilliant humans with whom to exchange perspectives and ideas.
So, what are you doing about these creatures? Can't let this stuff mold in your brain, that's really not good for a person. You obviously have the necessary passion for your stories, and work like this can only expand your abilities to perceive and understand. The drawing will take care of itself if you nurture it and let it happen. Are you reading this thinking I can't I can't? Please just look at the student examples in the book I mentioned above. It was written for people who don't think they can draw, and she's been teaching this course with a passion for bringing people to their innate ability to draw for years (the first edition came out in 1979). I've been drawing since I was old enough to hold a pencil, and this book changed my ability to access the flow in some remarkable ways. I don't recommend it lightly, but hmmm, I am bossy aren't I.
Oh, and your River quote about swallowing a bug? I see now that choice might have had a slightly different motivation than the usual!
Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!
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