The Conservative Right wants us all PORN Again !!
POSTED BY: Howard
UPDATED: Saturday, November 5, 2005 00:44
VIEWED: 2826
PAGE 2 of 2
7%,
Interesting idea.
I think that there are health issues related to endemic spread of disease. If someone made the argument that liberals wanted such diseases to spread they'd be rightly branded a looney.
I think the phrase "conservatives oppose" is honest but misleading. Conservatives as a group undoubtedly do not oppose, but those who oppose may be conservatives.
I really don't have a lot of tolerance for this sort of christian lunacy that thinks it can legislate healthcare.
I support RTL, sure, but that's a right wing opposition to a left legislation of healthcare, or that's how we would see, as a right to life from the point of view of the foetus, but this sort of stuff in the story you just printed...
... it's crackpots. Sadly, it's crackpots on my side. If you have any suggestion of ways I can maybe get them to shut up, it would be greatly appreciated.
:)
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No, they're learning even better stuff - like how to lie about WMD's to the American people , how to create a culture of fear (Today's terror alert level: Chartreuse), how to set up fall guys when your minions get caught committing treason.
Only that you're wrong on all 3 accounts. There was no lie about WMD. Sorry, but you can repeat that lie yourself as much as you want, it'll never become true. The terrorist , not Bush, created the mess we're in now. Don't EVER forget that. Blame them for the cold blooded murder of 1000s. And who was set up? Who committed treason? So far, all Scooter Libby is accused of is being a bone head and not getting his facts straight. Valerie wasn't some deep, covert operative, so don't try to claim she was. Scooter wasn't indicted for any act of treason. Get your facts straight.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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There was no lie about WMD. Sorry, but you can repeat that lie yourself as much as you want, it'll never become true.
Oh, so they found them? That's nice. That "proof" they kept parading in front of us bore fruit? I must have missed that.
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The terrorist , not Bush, created the mess we're in now.
True. Bush just made it worse.
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Auraptor give it a rest. There was a lie about WMD. It went like this
In the beginning there were WMDs.
We sold them to Iraq.
That's how we knew he had them.
When Bush 41 went to war in kuwait, saddam destroyed the WMD becasue he was afraid of being found out.
Bush wanted a war with Iraq. Okay, no, that's nto fair. Bush wanted a cheeseburger. Cheney and PNAC wanted a war with Iraq.
So Tenet told them about the WMDs.
At this point, it was an error. Tenet didn't know they had been destroyed.
Colin Powell took the info to the UN. A resolution was passed against Iraq. The WMDs were still long gone, as they had been for a decade.
Saddam said I don't know what you're talking about. This was the first "lie" about WMDs.
Then the UN said "fine, we'll send you inspectors"
Inspectors went, found nothing.
The CIA looked into it, and found nothing.
Iraqi contacts of the CIA said "oh, saddam panicked in the gulf war and destroyed them." This apparantly was also not a lie.
Cheney got impatient and pressed for war. He could tell that further research was unlikely to back up the previous claims. Cheney exaggerated the certainty of the claims and then said something to the effect of everyone is behind me on this.
Bingo! The WMD lie. Yes, this was a big fat WMD lie. And then he kept making it, and other claims. It was very clear that the bulk of the CIA and the bulk of the military and police intelligence community as well as the UN workers did not believe that Saddam Hussein was currently in possession of WMDs at the time and theat he was capable of launching an assault on the USA and intended to do so. The was wrong on all accounts. The bulk of the intelligence community did not believe this. Cheney knew it was wrong, and said it anyway, repeatedly. Then the president in true monkey see monkey do fashion made the lie to the American people.
This is why it was necessary to rearrange the CIA into homeland securtiy and to sabotage Valerie Plame. It wasn't a vendetta, it was an effort to alter the intelligence community to support the statement and ones like it in the future that Bush Administration officials might have to make in order to fullfil the PNAC agenda.
So absolutely it was a whole lot of lying going on. What began as an error became a lie when the BA failed to admit the possibility that it might have been in error.
BTW, the cheeseburger story is true. While the plans for war were being drawn up, the president was preoccupied with a search for a cheeseburger. I can sympathize with that. I just wish he weren't president. I think he could be good doing something else, like appearing on an episode of Jerry Springer.
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Chartreuse! That needs to be a terror alert level so very much!
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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Only that you're wrong on all 3 accounts. There was no lie about WMD. Sorry, but you can repeat that lie yourself as much as you want, it'll never become true. The terrorist , not Bush, created the mess we're in now. Don't EVER forget that. Blame them for the cold blooded murder of 1000s. And who was set up? Who committed treason? So far, all Scooter Libby is accused of is being a bone head and not getting his facts straight. Valerie wasn't some deep, covert operative, so don't try to claim she was. Scooter wasn't indicted for any act of treason. Get your facts straight.
This was the best you could do? I notice you couldn't attack any of the logic of my posts as they related to the actual topics of women's issues or Clinton's role in advancing sexual boundaries; instead you went after a throwaway line of sarcasm I used against Hero.
But even in that line, the facts are pretty much straight and narrow. No WMD's were found in Iraq, no Iraqis were on the 9/11 flights, Saddam and Osama weren't calling each other, your neighbor doesn't have the Ebola, Bush lodged us into a quagmire, and, last I checked, Plamegate isn't over, so we'll see how those treason charges come along (but, hey, Scooter's up on Perjury charges - remember how serious cons claimed they were when Clinton did it? Why are they being called frivolous charges now?)
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Lynch,
newamericancentury.org is the PNAC website. Since you know already that I think PNAC is the antichrist, then why do you think this will win me over. Anyway, I'll read it later, but I've read and heard their justification many times. I just saw Bill Kristol give it again in an interview.
Problem with it does not even begin to describe the situation. Congress voted for something that contained one sentence about force as a last resort. That's not a declaration of war. Congress should automatically impeach any president who takes something which is not a declaration of war and uses it as a declaration of war. It may be way late for that, but they should do it, be they or the president democrat or republican, and they should do it out of hand without regard to any other issues at hand, because, and only because, it is a very serious violation of the constitution of the united state that any president in order to be president must have sworn an oath to uphold.
As for WMDs, I don't think I did blame it entirely on Bush. I blame it on PNAC, and their stooges. Clinton being the major one, I blame him a lot. I don't see why, when faced with the overwhelming evidence that Bush is really just a continuation of Clinton, people would even consider supporting him. Right wing people that is.
I'm not saying go elect a Democrat. Please don't. Give us a better republican. I have to set a higher standard than "not a democrat." That's just not good enough.
Sorry if you mistook me for a democrat because I said the president lied.
But he did lie. Not at first. But later on. After everyone was clear that it was unclear whether or not saddam hussein still had the WMDs, they lied, and said it was clear.
No facts that come to light in the future could possibly make that lie into truth.
Because the lie, as I stated before, quite clearly I thought, was that Bush, and more particularly Cheney, and also Rice, many many times indicated that there was no dispute in the intelligence community, that everyone was solidly behind their certainty that Iraq was still in possession of the WMDs. And that was simply not true. And everyone knew it. There was very much a debate, and there was no consensus. And now it looks like the dissent that was alledged not to exist, actually turned out to be correct, and it seems there were no WMDs. But now, even if there were WMDs, the lie would still be a lie.
But my problems with this war do go far far beyond that.
1. This war was set upon with the belief that Saddam Hussein had short range capabilities (no one even claimed he had long range, they assume iraqis would have to get into the US with the weapons to attack us.) Going to war without proper intelligence groundwork first would have put the men and women of our armed forces at incredible risk, had Saddam actually still had the WMDs.
2. It is a pre-emptive war. The Docrtine of Pre-Emptive War was renamed the Bush Doctrine because of this. But before that it was the Hitler Doctrine. Pre-emptive was has always been a uphamism for imperialist invasion. This is unacceptable for America. It's beyond unacceptable, it's an act of treason.
3. It's an act of social militarism, an effort to bring about social change, local to Iraq in this case, through military action. This is a tenet of militant state socialism.
4. This plan was thought up by the boys at PNAC, almost every one of them a former Socialist or Communist Party member. You can look them up one by one. There's a pretty strong commie influence there.
5. Need I say more? Has the US become the Soviet Union? Is this our goal? When we've finally accepted torture and indefinite detainment camps will we become Nazi Germany?
6. It's a plan that was made up by commies, and set into motion by the Clinton govt. It's a continuation of the Clinton serial war for global change. It's a nightmare. It's WWIII.
7. The world hates us now. And right they are. We are becoming a monster. Can we please at least ask Bush to resign, and at best publically execute him for high treason?
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