Post Serenity: Is the Fireflyverse even remotely pro-government anymore?*warning: spoilers*
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2005 06:58
VIEWED: 10014
PAGE 8 of 11
Re: insanity.
Okay, at the risk of ruling myself out to be taken seriously, I know a lot about this for a reason, if anyone is still reading. I know this was a lot of posts. But I think I can end this "what can a crazy person really do" discussion.
I had, about five years ago, an attack of a serious neurodegenerative illness. It broke down my ability to reason or function on a basic level, in any way which resembled reality. I was haunted by halucinations, and paranoid delusions, I could often not talk, and sometimes not walk. I also didn't sleep. It isn't as fatal as someone posted because there were times I didn't sleep for weeks or months.
After seeing 18 doctors, including several 'experts' and talking to a half dozen more 'experts' over the phone, being on 15 different pharmaceuticals and to three hospitals, I had continued to degenrate with no end in site, and I came to a very fateful realization:
The medical community could not cure me because they knew nothing about the brain. Virtually nothing at all. On a level that witchdoctors who speak of possession and do exercism dances don't understand infection.
Fortunately for me I had a background in biochemistry. I started researching, and analyzing, theorizing, experimenting. I studied neurochemisty, mostly about mice, and got amino compounds and extracts, took them and made up charts of the effects. After two years, I cured myself.
As a result, I now know a tremendous amount about how the brain works. If anyone has problems like this, anything from depression to the sort of stuff I describe, don't hesitate to ask.
But anyway, yet. Someone like me, like I was, completely and utterly insane in the sense that they can no longer function in society or even comprehend it, can carry out extremely complex tasks.
I hope this settles the point.
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There's a difference, in my view, between a psychotic and someone who is insane.
Not really. A "psychotic" is a person whose hypothalmus is overmetabolizing tyrosine derivatives usually as the result of some deficiency.
Near as I understand it, but that's not addressing the real problem, which is that psychotic is a meaningless label made by people with no understanding of how the hypothalmus metabolizes tyrosine derivatives or even what any of those things might be.
I wasn't a "psychotic" but I knew a couple, also including people capable of extremely complex tasks.
I think I do understand reavers very well, though.
The "lucky" get transformed to reavers, don't lie down, that's because the are the aware super race. If you lie down, or don't become awakened, you are not human and don't matter. So killing you isn't particularly wrong. You are just food.
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Okay, I finally got to the end of this thread. And my apologies again for overposting.
Chrisisall. Yes. Govts. are well meaning ill behaved teenagers. But they are fat reaver teens. they eat everything and grow.
My brother once said "The only reason for govt. is if you didn't have one, someone would come in and set up a govt."
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Quote:Wow, you posted a lot in such a short time!
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
My brother once said "The only reason for govt. is if you didn't have one, someone would come in and set up a govt."
Governmental analogy time:
My condominium recently ousted a management team from our board of trustees that was skimming, and we rejoiced. The new team is now swinging the other way cutting services and PERSONNEL!!! A long time fix-it-dude just got 'layed off'.
Ah, power...who has the ability to posess it WITHOUT using(abusing) it?
Chrisisall
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I think I came late to this thread :)
There was a lot of ranting to do
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Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Wow, you posted a lot in such a short time!
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
My brother once said "The only reason for govt. is if you didn't have one, someone would come in and set up a govt."
Governmental analogy time:
My condominium recently ousted a management team from our board of trustees that was skimming, and we rejoiced. The new team is now swinging the other way cutting services and PERSONNEL!!! A long time fix-it-dude just got 'layed off'.
Ah, power...who has the ability to posess it WITHOUT using(abusing) it?
Chrisisall
So, does power corrupt, or do corrupt people seek power?
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Originally posted by DreamTrove:
I understand the left's desire to disown them, though.
...
FINN IS RIGHT.
About Nazis.
This argument was done sometime ago. I will say nothing more on this subject save to reiterate and clarify my previous assertions.
You obviously hold rightwing ideals, as does Finn. I hold ideals that are pretty much fifty/fifty split between the two, not centrist, but both left and right wing.
I'm not trying to distance the Nazis from the left, that's been done for me as the general consensus among people who study these subjects in detail, and who's opinions are arguably more pertinent than yours, Finn's or my own, pretty much universally agree that the Nazi's WERE right wing. Given these facts I would say it sounds far more like it's the right not only trying to disown but also trying to foist the Nazi's on to the left.
I'll say it again.
You and Finn are obviously 'right-wing'. I mean no offence but you yourself are obviously extremely biased against socialism to the point that you’re seemingly incapable of seeing any successes in the left. Your posts lead me to believe that you wholeheartedly believe the 'right' is always 'right' and where the 'right' fails or is corrupt it's because the evil 'left' got involved somewhere.
So I'll say it again. The right is no better or worse than the left. The left is no better or worse than the right.
I say that the Nazis are both left and right or they are neither left nor right, depending on your interpretation of my statements.
Yourself and Finn both say, defiantly left, no doubt about it.
So again I say our beliefs are probably much less about what the Nazis are or were, and more about what we don't want them to be.
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A Socialist state doesn't guarantee rights, it guarantees services.
Actually neither do right wing states, there's plenty of right wing dictatorships, but of course those weren't right wing, they were twisted into dictatorships by the evil left, right
.Again your wanting to disown GW Bush to the left (and I'm sure you wholeheartedly believe this is valid) because your anti-bush and pro right, this points me in the direction of believing that your thoughts on this issue aren't entirely clear and unbiased.
If a state allowed the true right-wing 'free market' it is entirely possible you'd end up with a corporate run state.
Britain had a right-wing government during the 18th-19th centuries that began to grow very close to the east India Company. In many way's you couldn't tell where the government began and the corporation began.
It's entirely possible for a corporation to become meld with a government under a right-wing state.
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Government should censor speech
There should be a draft.
There should be laws regarding sex
Laws prohibiting drugs should stay
There should be a National ID card
What? This is conservative? No way.
I agree that Government censorship of speech is not a rightist ideology. That is, perhaps not any more. It's found in extreme left and right. It is however more prevalent within middle-ground rightwing states, and is traditionally a right-wing policy. It’s arguably a grey area, but if your going to include it, it belongs on the right, not the left.
You’re absolutely wrong on the point of the draft, though. The draft is a point towards strong military and has always been a right-wing rather than left-wing ideal. Right-wing politics believe in outward looking, which often includes a strong military. Left-wing politics is more inward looking which doesn't necessarily include a strong military.
You’re also confusing totalitarianism, (which isn't left wing, actually) with pure left wing ideologies, and thus forcing totalitarianism on left wing politics.
Laws on sex are very much traditionally right-wing and that still hasn't changed.
Likewise drugs.
The ID card is again a grey area. You may have a point on that. It's not left wing but it's not right wing either.
I feel that a lot of your posts regarding left wing/right wing shows p
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So, does power corrupt, or do corrupt people seek power?
I'm more of a Nietzsche fan myself, so I'm going to go with the corrupt seek power.
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Stuff Citizen said
Okay several things.
1. Being biased against socialism is like being biased against Nazis and Commies. Count me in.
2. Hopefully the left has something else to offer than Socialism
3. Successes? Did I miss something?
4. Me and Finn are right wing, sure, and several others here. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Me and Finn flew some flaming posts a few days ago on our "interrogation" policy. So everyone is liable to have their own point of view. This isn't about partisanship or anything.
5. The Nazis can't be distanced from the left, they were the left. The new left can distance itself from them. Quite frankly I'm somewhat concerned that Bush has failed to distance himself from the Nazis. It's one of many points I have against him.
6. The idea that the Nazis were right wing is patently absurd. The Nazis were evil, and if someone claims that they were very right wing than such a person if spouting left wing propoganda. Nazis were a) Socialists, b) Statists, c) Anti-free market, d) pro-social program, and e) social militarists. This pretty much makes them 100% definitely not right wing. The right believes in personal freedoms more than forced equality, small govt, pro-business, pro-religious freedom, pro-independent societies, anti-govt control. I think our positions are pretty well defined and definitely have nothing in common with Naziism.
7. Stalin was also left wing. Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein. Many others. These people were left wing because they were members of the left wing party. You said "there's plenty of right wing dictatorships." Name one. Following this same model of they were in the right wing party, and no, George W. Bush doesn't count. As long as I can openly oppose him as much as I want, and run candidates against him, he doesn't count.
WTF????!!!!!!!!!!
I am so NOT wrong about the draft.
The draft is a democrat thing, and it still is. The democrats believe that with a draft rich kids will go to war. I think this is a fantasy. The only real truth about a draft is that the army will be larger and we will be able to fight bigger wars. I am certainly right about what was said on the debates, I watched all of them.
Please explain if you can, how:
1. Many wars with the indians
2. A war with germany in 1915
3. A nuclear war with Japan
4. A war with Korea
5. A war with Vietnam
6. The many wars of Clinton.
... is not a policy of militarism?????????
My views on right and left are very objective. The right isn't perfect, it has people in it who are anti-stem cell research and pro-intelligent design. The left is mostly very well meaning, but I do know a lot about it. I was once on their side, for many many years. I was ...
phooey I have to go to dinner, I'll finish this later.
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Quote:I doubt this since they were coined in 1789 one i think it was right right refered to the monarchists.
Originally, back in the 1700s, the terms "right" and "left" as applied to politics had a clear meaning.
I don't think, btw, that the left is evil. Socialism is evil. There are lots of decent people on the left. Russ Feingold, George Galloway, are two I have a lot of respect for.
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Originally posted by DreamTrove:
1. Being biased against socialism is like being biased against Nazis and Commies. Count me in.
Yes, I see exactly! The partially socialist states of Europe (Britain, France, Germany etc) are well known as the most evil states in existence in the world!
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2. Hopefully the left has something else to offer than Socialism
Erm, a lot more. I'll come back to this.
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3. Successes? Did I miss something?
Erm, yes. The vastly superior, essentially public Health care systems of the 'evil' states of France, Germany and to a lesser extent Britain over that of the more predominantly right wing United States, for one.
The far lower social problems such as gang warfare and general social tension within the aforementioned nations and the US?
Most European nations currently follow a socialist or partially socialist system, and Europe’s doing just fine thanks.
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4. Me and Finn are right wing, sure, and several others here. Ain't nothing wrong with that.
Never said there was. But it worries me when someone is so biased against something that they are incapable of seeing anything but rhetoric that supports their anti- view.
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6. The idea that the Nazis were right wing is patently absurd. The Nazis were evil, and if someone claims that they were very right wing than such a person if spouting left wing propoganda.
Yes, because as you've already asserted the only evil people in the world are those crazy leftists who want all freedom taken away.
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Nazis were a) Socialists, b) Statists, c) Anti-free market, d) pro-social program, and e) social militarists.
f) Most closely resembling the rightwing ideology of Fascism.
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This pretty much makes them 100% definitely not right wing. The right believes in personal freedoms more than forced equality, small govt, pro-business, pro-religious freedom, pro-independent societies, anti-govt control. I think our positions are pretty well defined and definitely have nothing in common with Naziism.
Your definitions of Right-wing and Left-wing are obviously incorrect, as I alluded to earlier. Let me clarify by taking your points as too what you see Right wing to actually be:
personal freedoms originally a left-wing ideal now adopted by some ideals which are sometimes considered to be right wing, such as Libertarians.
pro-religious freedom Actually strict right-wing ideologies are not sectarian, this is an original leftist ideal.
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Communism, as well as the Marxist philosophy that many base it on, and most currents of traditional anarchism are often considered to be radical forms of left-wing politics. Most left-wingers however reject any association with communism or anarchism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
Fascism, as well as the nationalist ideology that many base it on, are often considered to be radical forms of right-wing politics. Most right-wingers however reject any association with fascism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics
Both those passages sound fairly similar. Maybe you should seek out a leftist who maintains that communism isn’t born out of left-wing politics, I'm sure they can come up just as many arguments as to why communism isn't left-wing as you can for why Nazis aren't right-wing.
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You said "there's plenty of right wing dictatorships." Name one.
Here’s two straight away.
Chile under Augusto Pinochet.
South Korea under Gen. Park Chung-hee.
How’s that for a start?
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I am so NOT wrong about the draft.
I have no doubt you believe that. You don't like the draft. You don't like the left. Thus the draft must be leftist.
Your understanding of the left right spectrum is warped, as is many peoples. You seem to have systematically moved anything you think is good into right wing, and anything you think is bad into left wing, in complete disregard for the real defini
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