General Discussions

Are the Browncoats to blame for Serenity's lack of success?

POSTED BY: telewill
UPDATED: Friday, November 4, 2005 07:33
VIEWED: 12315
PAGE 2 of 5

PHOEBE

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by telewill:
This could all have been avoided if the word was put out back to TPTB that the ending needed reworking. There were plenty of people who saw this over the summer in plenty of cities. If they thought the movie was fine as it was, or if they said nothing, they are every bit as much at fault for the failure of Serenity as Joss is.

I find that completely and utterly offensive, and I find it disappointing that we still have browncoats with such a disgraceful attitude among us.

So the fact that *YOU* did not like the ending means that *EVERYONE* hated the ending? Speak for yourself, because I LOVED it. I'm GLAD that what happened happened. I would have been annoyed if what happened DIDNT happen in some form or another. But I would never, EVER, presume to speak for everyone, or assume that my word is god.

Box office failure has nothing to do with the ending of the film. In case you hadn't noticed, people have to go in there in the first place to SEE the ending, it's hardly displayed in the trailers. And the only people who have a problem with the ending are Browncoats who were hoping for a) another episode of Firefly (so don't insult our intelligence by complaining about it since you're getting a MOVIE not another episode) or b) a nice fair tale where everyone lives happily every after despite the fact that by rights there should have been no more than two SURVIVORS let alone DEATHS.

If anything it's browncoats like YOU who are to blame, not Joss (who wrote us this masterpiece), not Universal (who financed the one thing we've all wanted), and not the browncoats (who've worked tirelessly hard, who've poured their heart and soul into it, only to be trodden on and beaten into the ground by your crap and the crap of other ungrateful saps).

I am so sick and tired of whining threads like this

I could handle them before now but trying to blame US is the last straw

EARLY

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoebe:
Quote:
If anything it's browncoats like YOU who are to blame, not Joss (who wrote us this masterpiece), not Universal (who financed the one thing we've all wanted), and not the browncoats (who've worked tirelessly hard, who've poured their heart and soul into it, only to be trodden on and beaten into the ground by your crap and the crap of other ungrateful saps).

I am so sick and tired of whining threads like this I could handle them before now but trying to blame US is the last straw

Wow...ouch.

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PHOEBE

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:21 PM

Sorry. I meant that, but I was out of line in how it sounded. I have no issue with people who didn't like it for various reasons (even though I don't understand it, disagree, and don't like the multitude of threads saying the exact same thing repeatedly). I lost my temper though at the implication that we're to blame. That's incredibly, incredibly low.

EARLY

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoebe:
Sorry. I meant that, but I was out of line in how it sounded. I have no issue with people who didn't like it for various reasons (even though I don't understand it, disagree, and don't like the multitude of threads saying the exact same thing repeatedly). I lost my temper though at the implication that we're to blame. That's incredibly, incredibly low.

I understand you were mad, but of course it isn't the browncoats' fault. For one thing your only job as fans is to go buy a ticket...many went above and beyond as if they recieved a paycheck from the Universal marketing department. Good job to all of you by the way. How many movies / TV shows out there have fans so dedicated that they will market the movie too. That says a lot for all of you...browncoats may be small in number but they are big in dedication.

SOUPCATCHER

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:15 PM

* Rather than put things in spoiler tags I'll just say right up front that here be spoilers. Read at your own peril if Serenity has not yet come to a country near you. *

telewill, I just wanted to address a couple of things from your post. I'll try to recap what I think you're saying and please let me know if I'm misinterpreting your remarks. Recap: That a certain decision made by Joss Whedon was done simply for shock value; That one decision took what was a great movie for you and turned it into a lousy one; That changing that one plot point would have resulted in a different result at the box office; That fans who saw the movie at pre-screenings should have let Whedon know that that one plot point spelled the difference between success and failure at the box office; Therefore the fans are at fault for the box office performance.

There are plenty of threads on this board devoted to that one particular plot point and shock value. Rather than revisiting what has already been written I'll simply say that I disagree with you and we're probably not going to change each other's opinions on that score.

One thing is clear and that is that you are not alone in feeling that that one particular plot point ruined what was, by your accounts (95 out of 100), an excellent movie. It's not a majority opinion by a long shot but that doesn't make it any less valid. For you, any desire to promote Serenity died when Wash did. Maybe it took you a while to realize that (as recently as last week you were still writing about how much you liked the movie) but it's completely understantable that you can't promote a movie you don't love. This was always a possibility, that people who saw Serenity wouldn't like it (although we tried not to think about it) and we'd lose that portion of the fanbase to further promotion. What is surprising is that, for most of the people who didn't like this movie, it comes down to one event. Fortunately, many of the fans who saw this movie loved it (hated what happens but loved the movie).

I completely disagree that killing Wash was the main reason for the box office results. First off, the box office results to date - twenty-seven days after the movie opened in Australia - have been disappointing to fans who were hoping for an immediate greenlight to the sequel based on the opening weekend numbers (which would've been nice). But, based on the opening weekend numbers, the domestic returns have been absolutely consistent with similar movies. The problem was not that the drop-off was atypical, it was that the opening weekend was lower than expected. The movie actually performed better than similar movies in its second week of US/Canada release. Getting people in the seats for the opening weekend is a marketing problem.

As far as the pre-screenings go, I think you're operating with incomplete information. There were very vocal critics of Wash's death after the first pre-screening. A small minority (anecdotally I'd say it was less than five percent) but definitely present. And, for me, I think they misinterpreted what those screenings were for. They weren't test screenings (where you go for free and provide feedback). They were early viewings as a thank you to fans. The test screenings had already taken place months earlier. As Whedon mentioned in the intro the movie was basically in its final form. So to expect any substantive plot changes after those pre-screenings was unrealistic. That wasn't what they were there for.

To sort of sum up I think blaming the fans is just not cool. And that's any type of blaming. The only thing I would say about the fans is that Universal definitely overestimated how many of us there were and planned their marketing based on bad information. The fans (and by this I'm specifically talking about fans of Serenity - which includes many, but not all, fans of Firefly and some others) are still working hard to make the movie more money. We're in it for the long haul (and we're talking years here). And if it doesn't happen, c'est la vie, at

CHINDI

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:07 PM

Nope.. t'weren't the browncoats nor anyone else's "fault". Box office is down across the board.... ppl just stay home to watch movies.

This has affected Serenity and every other movie to come out all year...

Your points are valid for other reasons, but not for affecting BO... that Hollyweird has managed to sabotage all on it's own...

and the way H'Wood markets movies these days is soooo lame and wrong, they have wrecked more films then they helped! Cinderella Man (oscar written all over it) TANKED due to bad marketing.. and maybe who wants to watch a depression onscreen when we are on the verge of one for real.. The Weatherman is being marketed as a comedy.. it is not.. these PR guys don't know nothing and the poor BO is evidence of that..

WHERE was the marketing for Serenity?? talking about a cancelled TV show....uhm.. poor choice of words to the uninitiated.. now- Remind ppl how they felt when they first met Han Solo?? That might have been a bit more enticing..

so again.. the independents aren;t to blame here.. blame that Alliance of uncreative marketers..

Chindi

MSCKAREN

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:22 PM

Phoebe, I agreed with your angry post actually and I'd like to point out to people that they may want to check the profiles on these negative posts.

Anybody else suspicious about the fact that so many negative threads are being started by new members? The Universal board is having the same thing happen. Personally, I think these are a new/improved version of trolls. A bit more articulate than the "Browncoats Suck" version, but just as, if not more, dangerous.

If they are long time Browncoats, why is it just now that they are joining the boards? Just to poison the well for the Browncoats who BELIEVE HARD? By definition, posters who do this are trolls.

On the other hand, I'm so proud to be part of a community who's first response is to try to be supportive. I just hope your good nature is not being taking advantage of.

As I surf IMDB, the UB and come back here as my haven, I'm seeing the same phenomenon repeated over and over. So I'm starting to get a little Mallish attitude:

"...I hear one word out of any of you that ain't helping me out or taking your leave I will shoot you." ...or consider you a troll...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

CHINDI

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:26 PM

So I'm starting to get a little Mallish attitude:

"...I hear one word out of any of you that ain't helping me out or taking your leave I will shoot you." ...or consider you a troll...

LMAO

Loved it...

chindi

trying on the troll hat.. nah, doesn't fit..

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Joss Whedon has done similar things on his other shows. Everytime, disaffected fans have lobbied him to correct it somehow. To paraphrase Joss in an interview: "If I kill someone and people keep saying 'You have to bring that character back, you have to bring that character back,' I know I've killed the right character. If I kill someone and people just shrug, I know I've made a mistake." So, Joss would not bow to fan pressure even if there had been a substantial amount; which I'm guessing there wasn't.

I've got to say, if that's the criterion Joss uses, then every character in Serenity besides the poor dude Mal pushed off the mule should be alive today. The reason the BDM disappointed me was that I didn't care, not that it broke my heart. For me, that makes those deaths less than meaningless. That most people feel differently means Joss, by his criterion, has done right by most of his fans. So you of that bunch, be happy, you got your shiny movie. I'm going to go back and cry over the River Tam sessions. Those were good: those broke my heart.

So while for me the viral marketing was better than the marketed product, the majority of you seem to be satisfied. Yes, it is the Browncoats fault..for getting the movie most of them wanted.

So I'm sorry, Telewill, that you too were dissatisfied, but the Browncoats brought this movie into being and gave it the success it does have. If the whole world were delirious about it, then it would be a smashing success. Those of us who like it less are seeing it less, and giving less to the box office. We are the reason it is less successful --as is anyone who doesn't like scifi, only watches Julia Roberts films, doesn't see movies in theaters, etc. The people who actually see it are responsible for what goes right, not what goes wrong.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by msckaren:
Anybody else suspicious about the fact that so many negative threads are being started by new members? The Universal board is having the same thing happen. Personally, I think these are a new/improved version of trolls. A bit more articulate than the "Browncoats Suck" version, but just as, if not more, dangerous.

If they are long time Browncoats, why is it just now that they are joining the boards? Just to poison the well for the Browncoats who BELIEVE HARD? By definition, posters who do this are trolls.

Because maybe some of them feel there's just a little bit too much apologism and denial going around and they felt the need to get vocal ?

It's always easier to find your voice in anger and dismay, and it's often hard to find something new and interesting to say other than "me too"..

Likely, yes, a certain percentage of em are trolls, sure, but also a good bunch of them are likely long-time lurkers who feel suddenly crapped on and felt the need to vent.

And I say let em, I don't see none of them forcing their opinions down on folk, the way some browncoats have taken up the gauntlet as of late.

Civilized folk can agree to disagree, and we're civilized folk... ain't we ?

I can sympathise with that "crapped on and need to vent" thing, but HKCav and a few others did a wonderful job of venting in an extremely civilized fashion in another thread, so i'm all done boilin over myself... but yeah, I understand the feeling.

If they wanna vent, let em vent, nobody's forcin ya to agree with em, and on top of that, when a fandom can no longer take constructive criticism, or any criticism, it becomes something ugly....

We don't wanna be ugly, do we ?

Just some thoughts.

-Frem