So...are you going to download it?
POSTED BY: HanoverFist
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 17:00
VIEWED: 38663
PAGE 10 of 12
No harm since the Studios get the money from our wallets for the cinema, SEVERAL times in MANY cases, and the go sa quality of pirated movies is usually so crap and minus extra features/Dolby 2.0, Surround or DTS that we dont bother and BUY the DVD - once it's eventually out.
No harm and money IN their pockets.
Wanna help me on this one Fellas? Jayne? No harm done in box office share percentages is expressed in mathematics as...?
“Ten percent of nothing…let me do the math here…nuthin’ into nuthin’…carry the nuthin’…”
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Sorry for the rant, but this is simple case of right and wrong and people are trying to justify it. You people aren't browncoats to me - you're gorram thieves(and not at all like the BDH in that respect).
"And I’m thinkin’ you weren’t burdened with an overabundance of schooling. So why don’t we just ignore each other, til we go away?"
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"Some of you disgust me. I don't care how many times you've paid to see it at the cinema, you are stealing a movie. You may think it doesn't matter for you if you've seen it a lot already, but every single time someone downloads a movie it sends the message to the people that pirate the movies that "we want you to keep doing this, please supply us with illegal movie goodness"."
"Oh my god. What can it be? We’re all doomed! Who’s flying this thing...!?"
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"Hey, support it best you can! I believe supporting this as far as we can will get Serenity restarted. Right now seems VERY "Out Of Gas", and the Fans are Mal. We need to get her running to get the Big Damn Button pushed."
"I don't care what you believe in! Just BELIEVE!"
- Self Quote from a reply to a post about Serenity
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Originally posted by Angelcrusherd:
To the dude who bitched about my using the term 'entitled'- you're using a legal arguement against my personal opinion which doesn't work. I feel that I am entitled to watch Serenity at least once during the months that it is unavailable by other means. Just like any other movie that I'm fond of- going to the movies more times than I planned gives me the impression that I have contributed more than the non-Browncoats (in the Firefly instance), letting me download the movie as some form of premium fan. To cleanse any doubts that I might have, I buy an extra DVD. That isn't redistributing, it isn't copying, it isn't ridiculous, it's paying for what I've taken. I don't need more than one DVD but I still buy them because I want to see more of Firefly.
Umm... I'm that dude.So, you're saying that when you said you were entitled to a copy, you meant that you FELT that you were entitled to a copy? How is that even an argument? Lots of people might FEEL that they're entitled to something; that doesn't necessarily make it so. Then you list the REASONS that you feel you're entitled. All I did was point out that there's a pretty clear standard out there about who's entitled, and that you don't fall within it.
Also, the argument that if you don't do it someone else will (share the movie through P2P) also, obviously, doesn't make it right. If I live in an especially dangerous neighborhood where people get murdered all of the time, that doesn't make it right if I murder someone just because someone else would have done it anyway. (Yeah, yeah, it's a different example, but the logic is the same, and equally flawed.)
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...although I find the new one ("You wouldn't steal a purse or a car! So don't download!) funny in a how-can-it-already-look-outdated? kind of way.
It was worse than old ads you can see from 1987!
Wasn't the SAME thing done for video cassette piracy? Then CD-ROM? And perhaps Lasredisc...
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"Hey, support it best you can! I believe supporting this as far as we can will get Serenity restarted. Right now seems VERY "Out Of Gas", and the Fans are Mal. We need to get her running to get the Big Damn Button pushed."
"I don't care what you believe in! Just BELIEVE!"
- Self Quote from a reply to a post about Serenity
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Angelcrusherd, let's recap:
1. You know it's illegal, you don't care.
2. You have read that many of us, nominally your peer group, consider it WRONG, you don't care.
3. You concede that the owners of the intellectual property at issue oppose your appropriating it. You don't care.
4. What you propose is contrary to the ethical system of the P2P network, but you don't care.
5. Big corporations deserve to have their assets pilfered. The retired shareholders who live on the dividends, either through direct investment, mutual funds or pension funds, don't really need all that money, anyway.
6. For some reason incomprehensible to the rest of us, you feel that paying the purchase price for what you have gotten fairly entitles you to additional goods and services. Please advise me--So far I've purchased 2 sets of Firefly (donated one to the public library, loan out the other), nine comic books, one action figure, one copy of The Serenity Visual Companion, and 8 movie tickets. What am I entitled to, beyond what I paid for?
May we assume that, in the fine tradition of Ghandi-an Civil Disobedience, you will notify the MPAA, Universal Studios, Mr. Whedon and your local authorities when you obtain another's intellectual property by illegal means? Proudly taking this step will allow you to explain your justifications to those most directly involved.
From the MPAA website:
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The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and its international counterpart, the Motion Picture Association (MPA), estimate that the U.S. motion picture industry loses in excess of $3 billion annually in potential worldwide revenue due to piracy. Due to the difficulty in calculating Internet piracy losses, these figures are NOT currently included in the overall loss estimates. However, it is safe to assume Internet losses cause untold additional damages to the industry.
Assuming a budget of $60M per sequel, $3 Billion equates to 500 sequels, with no recouping of investment needed. They could open with NO admission charge.
And as to your, "I'm addicted, I can't wait 7 weeks with only my 14 original episodes to watch" argument, what are you going to do 3 months after Serenity comes out on DVD when there's no new material after that?
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Originally posted by Sep7imus:
First of all, that IS hypocritical. If you believe that it is a right for people to get stuff when people share stuff, then you really ought to share stuff.
More to the point, if you downloaded it as a Torrent, then you HAD TO share it with other people, at least while you were downloading it.
If they don't want to give, then they won't. If they do, then I'll take, since obviously if the stuff is out there, they're perfectly willing. Me, I prefer not to give in this instance. It's not my problem if other people chose to give and allow me the chance to take. They made their choice, I made mine.
And no, I wasn't sharing. Checked, double checked, twigged settings. I know what I'm doing.
Hee! Sorry, had to edit to respond to this cause it made me chuckle (in a funny, friendly, non-offensive way, cause I'm not a bitch).
4. What you propose is contrary to the ethical system of the P2P network, but you don't care.
You complain that it's ethically wrong to use P2P, because people shouldn't be sharing Serenity, then when said person refuses to share Serenity, you complain that it's ethically wrong. Made me chuckle, that did.
Either it's ethically wrong to use P2P, or it's ethically wrong to share... you guys can't twist everything to make it fit your ideals perfectly.
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Originally posted by R1Z:
Angelcrusherd, let's recap:
5. Big corporations deserve to have their assets pilfered. The retired shareholders who live on the dividends, either through direct investment, mutual funds or pension funds, don't really need all that money, anyway.
What a wonderful example of a straw man fallacy! I have not seen anyone talk about retired pensioners or pilfering corporations. That is all you, dude.
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Originally posted by R1Z:
From the MPAA website:Quote:
The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and its international counterpart, the Motion Picture Association (MPA), estimate that the U.S. motion picture industry loses in excess of $3 billion annually in potential worldwide revenue due to piracy. Due to the difficulty in calculating Internet piracy losses, these figures are NOT currently included in the overall loss estimates. However, it is safe to assume Internet losses cause untold additional damages to the industry.
Assuming a budget of $60M per sequel, $3 Billion equates to 500 sequels, with no recouping of investment needed. They could open with NO admission charge.
You need to stop buying the MPAA propaganda hook-line-and-sinker. It's embarrassing, really. Their methodology for coming up with their numbers has been questioned repeatedly and they even admit in the quote that it is difficult to calculate Internet losses. Sorry but I do not agree that "it is safe to assume Internet losses cause untold additional damages to the industry." And guess what? I am not the only one that does not agree. There is much research out there to suggest that not only is piracy NOT the rampant problem the Industry makes it out to be, but it can actually HELP sales.
Maybe the problem is that the music and film industries have turned out more tired crap in the last few years and it is simply not worth paying for.
But more to the point, I still have not seen it demonstrated how d/l'ing Serenity (after paying to see it in theaters and buying the DVD) is wrong? Now keep in mind, I am not saying that it is legal. Of course it is illegal. But as I said before, Texas still has a sodomy law on the books. Does that mean I am going to let the government tell me what I can and can't do with my wife? NO, gorramit! There is such a thing as an unjust/immoral law.
Did you know that there are companies right now that are patenting portions of the human genome under intellectual property law? So do you think that it will be okay for you one day to have to get permission from a patent holder before you reproduce?
R1Z, you keep falling back on the same argument time after time. It always seems to be that "it is wrong because you have not been told it is right." You are just going to have to do better than that. And stop trying to equate the downloading of a film with material theft. They are not and will never be the same. The world is changing, and the way copyright is dealt with needs to change also.
Would it be okay for me to download the movie AFTER I bought the DVD? Or is that still wrong, because no one has told me it is okay?
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You complain that it's ethically wrong to use P2P, because people shouldn't be sharing Serenity, then when said person refuses to share Serenity, you complain that it's ethically wrong. Made me chuckle, that did.
Either it's ethically wrong to use P2P, or it's ethically wrong to share... you guys can't twist everything to make it fit your ideals perfectly.
My position is that it's ethically wrong to download that which does not belong to you without the owner's consent.
However, seems to me that if one were to choose to participate in an activity (your choice, after all, I believe in free will, with attendant responsibility), then one should adhere to the ethical system governing that activity. If everyone "took" files, but no one "gave" files, how would the system work?
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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It’s Capitalism at work.
There is a definite need for digital media to be distributed throughout the internet, the media companies refuse to do this. The demand is still there, and will be filled. If there was a legal option to download the move (now or later) most people are downloading it would opt for this route. But as the industry cannot see two months down the road and are afraid of change and what it would mean to their distribution channel it only fuels the piracy.
The new technology (internet) is a global commodity, it isn’t and cannot be bound by local laws.
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Now keep in mind, I am not saying that it is legal. Of course it is illegal. But as I said before, Texas still has a sodomy law on the books.
The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the Texas sodomy statutes nearly a year ago. You really should get out more.
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R1Z, you keep falling back on the same argument time after time. It always seems to be that "it is wrong because you have not been told it is right." You are just going to have to do better than that. And stop trying to equate the downloading of a film with material theft. They are not and will never be the same. The world is changing, and the way copyright is dealt with needs to change also.
I have never said that "it is wrong because you have not been told it is right." What I have said is that Serenity (as with all intellectual property) belongs to those who created it. Absent permission from those owners (apparently Mr. Whedon and Universal Studios)it is wrong/unethical to make a copy of their work for any purpose at all. (fair use laws excepted) I have seen no such permission expressed anywhere. Until such time as I do see such permission explicitly expressed somewhere, I respectfully decline to condone such activity.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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5. Big corporations deserve to have their assets pilfered. The retired shareholders who live on the dividends, either through direct investment, mutual funds or pension funds, don't really need all that money, anyway.
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What a wonderful example of a straw man fallacy! I have not seen anyone talk about retired pensioners or pilfering corporations. That is all you, dude.
My 401K is in mutual funds. I may be one of the owners of Universal. Do you think only fatcats own stock? A corporation is owned by its stockholders. Stealing the assets of a corporation is stealing from them, whoever they are.
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And stop trying to equate the downloading of a film with material theft. They are not and will never be the same. The world is changing, and the way copyright is dealt with needs to change also.
This is clearly where we are never going to agree. I can assure you that I own my intellectual property just as surely as I own my car (paid for), the chair I'm sitting in, and this computer. I agree that copyright law needs to change to accomodate the digital world, but so far as I know, at this time, intellectual property still belongs to its creators.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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