So...are you going to download it?
POSTED BY: HanoverFist
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 17:00
VIEWED: 38663
PAGE 8 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Rebut this if you can: Joss and Universal OWN Serenity. Nowhere on the Serenity site, nor on the Universal board is there a button labelled, "Download Serenity for free." If they wanted you to have it for free, there would be.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
Yeah, I think we can argue that within a larger ultimate religious frame of context. Neither you, I, Joss, nor the entity known as Universal Studios corp/lmt doesn't own anything. The devine inspired others to create, but ultimately, the created "property" along with the entire kit-n-kaboodle belongs to the you-know-who. Besides, within the limited economics framework on this country, the shareholders together enjoined own the rights to al property held by these entities anyways. Then we can argue about who ultimatley really own the acts and products from these people, is it really just society at large?
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I agree that sales will be boosted. After reading this post I went looking for the movie on the Internet. Apparently quite a few people downloaded Serenity, I found one site called Piratebay, where over 3,000 people have downloaded the movie and that was just one hit in google, there were many sites with Serenity to download. The morality of downloading the movie is pretty obvious, the majority of people in the U.S. consider it morally wrong to download copies of movies, and ,in theory, the laws of the united states are the morals of our society. Having worked in the pharmacutical industry in the U.S. for awhile, I would have to say that the majority of people have the mentallity of cattle. We have grown lazy and it's easier to be told what to think by the media/large corporations. I survived one war and two conflicts and then lost my blinders by working for a large drug company. Do regulations protect us because we are uncapable of protecting ourselves, or do they protect profits and monopolies? Do I condone any crime, of course not? Grow up people.
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Yikes! This thread is moving fast!
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Leaked from the studio or insider is the most common form of these kinds of "piracy"... Most percentages of copies come from within the studio or the distribution chain itself.
Ahh... I kind of suspected that but wasn't sure. Thanks!
Quote:
That's why they've switched the ads over to the clerks and stagehands talking about how you are taking money out of their children's mouths. Sympathy points from blue-collar to blue-collar.
Yep, I think they actually did more damage to their argument with the Affleck commerical than anything else. Although I find the new one ("You wouldn't steal a purse or a car! So don't download!) funny in a how-can-it-already-look-outdated? kind of way.
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Maybe that is part of the reason Universal is releasing "King Kong" on DVD and in the theaters at the same time? Sell the impatient a DVD before they steal it online.
Here's where I disagree completely. Most people who download are going to do so regardless of whether the DVD is available. Why? They don't want to pay for it - at all.
So, then here's where to logic is twisted. Did you really take any money away from anyone at all? If some of these d/l'ers never intended on making a purchase at all in the 1st place. No money was lost or stolen to begin with. The cost of the opportunity was 'ZERO'. Now, what if I were to show you independent industry studies that said that albums that had people d/l'ed actually made better sales from folks who tried it and liked it? What does that say?
I was actually disagreeing with the notion that people were only downloading because they were impatient. I don't disagree that downloading can help artists, especially since breaking into the mainstream industry is so difficult (and even once you've broken into it there are no guarantees - ie. Fiona Apple).
Here's hoping I have enough quote tags!
Edit: Gorram quote tags! Also, rest of my responses will have to wait until tomorrow, I've been tying up the phone for far too long.
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Quote:
Yeah, I think we can argue that within a larger ultimate religious frame of context. Neither you, I, Joss, nor the entity known as Universal Studios corp/lmt doesn't own anything. The devine inspired others to create, but ultimately, the created "property" along with the entire kit-n-kaboodle belongs to the you-know-who. Besides, within the limited economics framework on this country, the shareholders together enjoined own the rights to al property held by these entities anyways. Then we can argue about who ultimatley really own the acts and products from these people, is it really just society at large?
Now you're just flailing. As an agnostic, I don't concede the existence of your "devine" or deity, nor do I acknowledge his/her possesion of anything.
I can assure you that I own a number of things. Several banks and assorted governmental authorities, claiming to represent "society at large" concede this fact and tell me that with ownership goes responsibility/accountability.
and by the way, "enjoined" means prohibited from taking certain actions.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Oh man, so many replies since I left. So many people damned and determined to hold law over life. I don't think you people understand the situation that you're whining about. We aren't plagiarizing Serenity. We aren't thieving a respected painting or ruining anyone's life. I consider downloading Serenity as a form of lay-away. A lease until I can purchase. I am entitled to that as a paying (out of the arse, to be frank) Browncoat. I am entitled to indulge myself in the target of my fandom because Joss wants his fans to be happy. He is far from blunt, no doubt he understands that a person contributing a considerable amount of monetary imbursement is obsessed enough in his created universe to own a B-rated copy of the DVD before it is officially released.
You people act as if Joss is irrelevant. Joss is the person I want my money going to. Joss and everyone who contributed to the series and movie directly. Nowhere do I include the government or the theaters. Anti-pirating organizations fine you multitudes over the actual amount in question and where does it go? Straight into the government's pocket. Tell me, oh highly moral loyalists, oh ignorant patriots, tell me how this is remotely just?
The fact is that there are those who will pirate the movie instead of spending money on any form of viewing but there are also those who have already spent money at the theaters, and those who will watch the download and gain interest which will end with them paying for the download's worth in various fandom expenses. If I might relate this to my experiences, I downloaded Firefly via BitTorrent before it was released on DVD and that spawned my love of the uncanny verse. I wonder who purchased the DVD set ASAP, correct it was I. But guess what else I purchased, kids? Another set to make up for the set that I downloaded. Oh woe, it seems that I have driven to Abode de Joss and slapped him in the face.
Sarcasm. Sarcasm because I feel that I am truly in the right. There are those who pirate things maliciously but a mere look at the shelves by my television suggests against all accusations. Nobody is going to stop the entire media-pirate culture, you, with your oh-so-moral stances, won't change a single thing. I'm not trying to justify my actions, I don't have to. I do justify my actions with money. Money well spent, giving the creators the money they deserve. I plan to do the same thing with Serenity.
You people justify your morals by making every downloader of the movie a malicious, evil person. This is far from the case and I think it's lacking of effort on your arguement to use such an excuse. 'Moral' is a fancy word for opinions. Opinions that are unique to the individual but considered to be universal due to people similar to the beliefs of yourselves. My morals disagree with people telling me what I can and cannot do. Life is too short to rule or be ruled, order can be achieved peacefully and without obstacle. However this government, yes America- the country in which I was born and raised- chooses forced order, consequence ridden laws and bills and rules and scattered trials ending in depression and death. Nowhere in the constitution does it say rewards will be had, just effects that scare people into order.
This is among the reasons I don't like Big Brother, and these ethical values towards this democratic republic are mine to possess. None of you had a say in the formation of those opinions, therefore none of you are going to change my mind. I alone hold the key to my mind, the mind that dictates my every action. The same organ that reasoned this entire situation out and will eventually lead to the number of Serenity copies I purchase plus one for the download that I will probably make. It's my choice, not the government's or you people's or even Joss', it is my choice to lease a copy of Serenity before I pay the amount in full. You can piss and moan all you like but as usual, nothing will change. Anything short of the destruction of the internet or a public announcement from our Big Damn Heroes the
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Quote:
I feel that I am truly in the right.
Well, that makes one of you.
Can you name one major (or even minor) motion picture studio that encourages downloading of their products?
Can you cite even one instance where the director or writer of a major motion picture encourages you to download a pirated copy?
I truly feel that Kroger should give me groceries for free, but I have been unable to find one grocery store, chain or mom & pop, who agrees with me, and they own the groceries.
"If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak."
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Again with the condescension. You're arguing an invalid subject, kid. There are no implications of support made by Joss or his affiliates, they can't give free copies out and make enough money to convince the big cheese to give them the budget for a sequal. Your point is correct but completely irrelevant and moot to the topic at hand. The people of this forum are Browncoats, mostly, which means we love Firefly. I don't believe any of us will pirate the movie out of malice just to deprive the corporations of money, it's illogical to think so. Joss doesn't condone the playful pirating publicly because it is a given. The act of pirating something between theater and DVD is almost a tradition to fans of a movie. I've done it with many films openly and have yet to recieve a letter to the extent of "I know you pirated my movie you bastard. You stole my money, I hate you, you make me sick. Fiend. Oh yes, thanks for purchasing two copies of the DVD and the shirt and cap. PIRATING IS WRONG! GO TO JAIL!"
And no, you don't truly feel that your grocery store should give you free groceries. It's just a pathetic attempt at being what I have described in my previous post. Movies and groceries are completely unalike. Correct me if I'm wrong but one cannot download a pork chop and when's the last time a tray of Oreos was released on DVD months after it left theaters? The logic there is absurd. It seems to me as if you're inventing concepts for the sheer sake of continuing an arguement that you cannot win. There is no reason why someone, that purchases extra copies of the merchandise in question solely to compensate for the download, should not be entitled to a crappy quality version of the film between the time that it leaves theaters of convenience and the DVD release. It isn't immoral or unjust, it's merely watching now and paying later for something that cannot be obtained in any other circumstance.
You don't have to dwell on the fact that pirating is illegal, so are drugs and hookers but take a look at who runs this country. I've read your post about how someone 'stole your file' and how pissed you were. Guess what, nobody really cares. My house and truck have been broken into more than enough times to piss me off thoroughly and I never got a phone call from the police because they didn't care, or even my insurance company because they don't care either. Theft is a part of life, live and learn. That doesn't mean I go around fighting crime on a fan forum on the internet because I'm fuming over my couple of stereos, telescope, televisions, gaming systems, laptop, etc- it means that people stole my crap and I accept it.
You can't justify your perfect little morals with that story because no matter how alike your situation is, you aren't Joss and you aren't a famous director (I think it's safe to assume). If you put yourself in Joss' Big Damn Shoes, wouldn't you want your fans to spread the word? In my opinion, writing a movie that makes 30 million at the box office, no matter how small of an amount that it seems in certain contexts, would make me happy as hell. Joss has stated time and time again how much he likes us, I'm getting a content vibe from him despite the low box office. I wouldn't be worried about a couple thousand people not paying five bucks, I would be ecstatic that people love Serenity so much that they can't wait for the DVD (which is what I believe his opinion is). In essence, I would rather be out a few thousand bucks and have a few thousand more fans than go public with some cheesy gimmick (totally unlike Joss)- "Oh don't pirate my movie please, it's immoral and R1Z agrees with me that it's wrong and I want your money-" and lose tons of fans and their money for being a whiny corporate pussy. Joss isn't like that and shame on you. Alliance bastards, I swear.
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No, because the quality is poop from the samples I've seen.
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Quality is only poop, cuz people scale down their stuff so it can be put on a VCD... as the DVD gets closer there will be a DVD version leaked... yay
So basically what i'm saying is that its normal quality for movies leaked while still in the theaters
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"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*
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I have to admit, if I hadn't downloaded the pilot episode of Firefly, I wouldn't be the rabid fan I am today (extremely rabid). I own the dvd box set now of course, but that's beside the point. It does not justify my downloading an episode of Firefly, but that's my opinion, I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.
I realize this makes me a hypocrit (horrible spelling), but even though I got into the 'verse by downloading the pilot ep of Firefly, I'm against downloading Serenity.
I don't want even an inkling of a chance of hurting the movie that way.
And that person who listed the pros and cons of p2p, great post. Just because you think you have the best intentions, doesn't mean the other peeps feeding off of you do.
Anyways I don't plan on fighting any big battles on this thread so I probably won't add anything else.
To summorize:
got into the series by downloading pilot
hypocrit because I'm against downloading Serenity
bad speller (not to mention grammatical errors)
"My food is problimatic" - River "The Message"
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