The Torture Question
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Sunday, October 30, 2005 21:30
VIEWED: 10585
PAGE 3 of 16
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
It says we're a nation of individuals with differing opinions. The folks who produced "the Torture Question" expressed their opinion and Mr. Moran expressed his. Or would you rather that only "acceptable" opinions be expressed?
I don't think anyones saying that, Geezer.
There is, however, a difference between saying Neo Nazis are evil, and keeping them silent.
What I mean is:
This Mr. Moran strikes me as the kinda guy who would have been cheering at the front of Hitler's Nuremberg rallies, shortly before chucking a Molotov cocktail through some Jewish families window.
All the time saying it's for the good of the nation, that these weasels deserve to die because they're trying to hurt the country...
Strikes me as the same sort of personallity would do that if society made it acceptable.
I would say that the treacherous one is Mr Moran, who evidently wants the Goverment to never be questioned (first step to glorious fascism, yay!), and believes that your consitution, which is, I believe the bedrock of American society, be entirely ignored.
Maybe you should put policy in Mr Moran's hands, no more worrying about Muslim terroists, when every muslim is either dead or in a concentration camp.
So... In the interests of freedom of speech, let Mr Moran scream at the top of his lungs about how anyone who doesn't hold his view should be 'gagged' because their obviously traitors.
But hey, while he's doing it, freedom of speech means we can all say:
"What a dick"
Or
"haha, look at the crazy person! haha, come on everyone, look at the nutter!"
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Even though I might, even though I try,
I can't
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Quote:*The crowd goes wild with the recognition that the verbal precision with which he cut to the heart of the matter was much like a surgeon's*
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Illegally promoting sadism and torture in the ranks of the U.S. Army is something any President should get in trouble for. That a bunch of folk have been waiting for the opportunity is a political commonplace. At least Bush would be taken down for something a bit more substantive than a bj.
AND, he worked in the funny Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The point was, had someone in Iran made a Koran art piece like the Xtian one you point out, he wouldn't have lived to see it on display. That's a fact. So, since something like that would be illegal at best, murderous heresy requiring stoning more than likely in a Moslem country, it doesn't matter whether it's freedom of speech in ours. I'm asking if we should treat the issue in that respect. Just because we define torture one way doesn't mean someone else's definition is a perfect match.
Slippery slope alert. Next might be: "Just because we find slavery (or subjugation of women, or genital mutilation of teen girls, or religious intolerence) a socital evil doesn't mean someone else's definition is a prefect match.
There are some things about which reasonable people can agree to disagree. There's others that are just wrong.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:I'm saying that our media should be able to report that there is no torture, Brad Pitt's leading the torture guard, or 100% of Americans use Korans as kitchen flooring; it should have no bearing on how safe our soldiers or citizens are, except, of course, we have them over there- our greatest mistake....
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Are you suggesting that it doesn’t matter whether our media puts forth rational and honest news? I would say that that kind of thinking with regard to the media is exactly what I was talking about.
Chrisisall, Isolationist CT
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
This Mr. Moran strikes me as the kinda guy who would have been cheering at the front of Hitler's Nuremberg rallies, shortly before chucking a Molotov cocktail through some Jewish families window.
All the time saying it's for the good of the nation, that these weasels deserve to die because they're trying to hurt the country...
Strikes me as the same sort of personallity would do that if society made it acceptable.
Just as there's people who post here who would ever so regretfully decide what is best for the rest of us because we obviously don't know the right way to think or we'd have elected John Kerry, or Hugo Chavez. They also know they are right, and would do anything, if capable, to remake the world to their prefect model.
I tend to be of the "leave me alone" persuasion, but there's lots out there on both sides who'd be glad to run my life, and yours.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:Why Geezer, another point we can agree on.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Slippery slope alert. Next might be: "Just because we find slavery (or subjugation of women, or genital mutilation of teen girls, or religious intolerence) a socital evil doesn't mean someone else's definition is a prefect match.
There are some things about which reasonable people can agree to disagree. There's others that are just wrong.
Let's not a habit of this, eh?
The black and white Chrisisall
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Quote:Oh. That’s not going to happen no matter where our troops are. As long as there are fanatical fruitcakes with aspirations of mass murder there will always be a need to report the news honestly and fairly to avoid unnecessarily providing a pretext to their fruitcakeyness.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm saying that our media should be able to report that there is no torture, Brad Pitt's leading the torture guard, or 100% of Americans use Korans as kitchen flooring; it should have no bearing on how safe our soldiers or citizens are, except, of course, we have them over there- our greatest mistake....
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Geezer:
My original point was no one was suggesting that Mr Moran or his misguided, and yes he IS misguided, views should be 'gagged'.
They were suggesting that he was not all there, which is an opinion.
I'm saying it's alright to say someone how wants to stiffle freedom of speech to protect our (at least your) way of life is a crackpot.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Even though I might, even though I try,
I can't
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Geezer:
My original point was no one was suggesting that Mr Moran or his misguided, and yes he IS misguided, views should be 'gagged'.
They were suggesting that he was not all there, which is an opinion.
I'm saying it's alright to say someone how wants to stiffle freedom of speech to protect our (at least your) way of life is a crackpot.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Even though I might, even though I try,
I can't
"What does it say about us as a nation that we have folks who not only support state-authorized torture, but also want to keep it secret."
And I was (or should have been) pointing out that Mr. Moran's statements have nothing to say about our nation other than the fact that he is free to make them in our nation. Nuts on all sides inhabit the country, but that doesn't make it a proto-Nazi Reich, a Commie-pinko commune, or an Anarchist free-for-all. Tarring the entire country with Mr. Moran's jingoistic brush is a bit simplistic.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:I do, however, see your point.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
As long as there are fanatical fruitcakes with aspirations of mass murder there will always be a need to report the news honestly and fairly to avoid unnecessarily providing a pretext to their fruitcakeyness.
Chrisisall, again with the cake issues
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