New Firefly fan. Comments about Serenity.

POSTED BY: dantheman
UPDATED: Sunday, October 23, 2005 22:42
VIEWED: 6745
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STEVE580

Friday, October 21, 2005 8:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
Not to mention the fact that the central premise to the movie was just lame. The Reaver origin story was just weak. Maybe the lesson here is that Joss belongs on TV.

Eh...you know that would have been revealed on the TV show too, right? It's the plot-twist he had in mind all along; and it was far from "lame," IMO.
-Steve

MALSWAY

Friday, October 21, 2005 8:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sevren:
For those upset at Wash's death, sure its sad. But its emotionally charging at the same time.

Also, I don't believe Wash's death was an arbitrary decision on Joss's part. I'm fairly certain Alan Tudyk wanted out of playing the part (I've read it a couple of places online), so this was a good end for his character.

Alan is quoted as saying the following about Wash's death:
I kind of also liked that it's not one of those deaths where I'm going, "Go on without me! I'll hold 'em off for as long as possible. You save yourselves, I love you sweetheart." Instead, it's "Whoopee, I just landed the spaceship!" Dead. Joss has a talent for sticking large wooden things through people's hearts.

Not 100% sure Alan actually said that, but I agree with it.

Besides, on a bit of a more realistic note, do you really think that a ragtag group of rebels can go up against the Alliance and the reavers without losing anyone?

HANOVERFIST

Friday, October 21, 2005 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
Not to mention the fact that the central premise to the movie was just lame. The Reaver origin story was just weak. Maybe the lesson here is that Joss belongs on TV.

Eh...you know that would have been revealed on the TV show too, right? It's the plot-twist he had in mind all along; and it was far from "lame," IMO.
-Steve

You may be right, but that doesn't make it any less lame. What would have made up for it (if it was revealed in the series) was the intervening years of character development. In Firefly, plot always took a backseat to character development. Let's face it, none of his actual stories (in terms of plot) are mind-bending. It is how he develops the characters and tells their stories one drop at a time that is addictive and ingenious.

In a movie, however, unless it is a serious drama or an arthouse flick, plot comes first. In this respect it just makes the inadequacies of the Reaver explanation all that more glaring. You do not have the luxury of having years of fascinating characters to make up for the weak writing. Come on, big experiment backfires on its creators? I think I read that in high school and it was called Frankenstein. The backfire wasn't even that creative.

Not to mention that the Reavers just don't make sense. I know this dead horse has been thoroughly beaten, but I just still don't buy a society completely make up of psychotic sociopaths. Look how they fight...like a bunch of deranged idiots. Why haven't they turned on each other in the intervening years and wiped themselves out? Also, how does a planet (Miranda) just stay hidden? It took the BDHs all of 5 minutes to figure out where it was and plot a course. Planets aren't exactly small, you may have noticed. These are some of the reasons why I thought the twist was lame.

The movie just came off as a glorified episode. (And not a very good one at that.)

3HEADEDMONKEY

Friday, October 21, 2005 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dantheman:
Joss should've never made the show into the movie. He should've tried to get it to another TV network, maybe HBO or something else. Instead with Serenity he ripped the heart out of the Firefly and even if they decide to continue it now, it would never be the same.

you didnt think he tried to get it on other networks? he shopped it around for a while. a movie is better than nothing.

STEVE580

Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
Come on, big experiment backfires on its creators? I think I read that in high school and it was called Frankenstein. The backfire wasn't even that creative.

Not to mention that the Reavers just don't make sense. I know this dead horse has been thoroughly beaten, but I just still don't buy a society completely make up of psychotic sociopaths. Look how they fight...like a bunch of deranged idiots. Why haven't they turned on each other in the intervening years and wiped themselves out? Also, how does a planet (Miranda) just stay hidden? It took the BDHs all of 5 minutes to figure out where it was and plot a course. Planets aren't exactly small, you may have noticed. These are some of the reasons why I thought the twist was lame.

Hm...I dunno, I thought the twist was fairly original - I didn't see it coming. I mean, adding chemicals to the air to calm people, which ends up calming them to death...I haven't seen that anywhere before. Obviously, if you boil the plot down to its simplest form, it's nothing new - your same description (an experiment that backfires) could be used to describe *most* movies.

And the Reaver thing - that was a concept introduced in the series. That's like saying the movie is implausible because Serenity's interior doesn't match up with the external CGI shots.

I mean, I can't argue with your opinion; it's just, the points you raised were things from the show, that were merely re-employed in the movie.
-Steve

BKIVEY

Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:39 PM

"She is starting to damage my calm."

I don't really see what the big deal is here. This is a story. IMHO a well-told story. As they say in English class, there are only four types of stories: Man v. man, man v. nature, man v. himself, and man v. God. Stories are the way people relate experiences to each other. In a mass-market story people will take what they want and discard the rest.

I enjoyed the movie, and am enjoying the series as it airs on Sci-Fi. I expect that I will buy the DVD of the movie and the series. Not to make too fine a point, but it is a TV show and a movie. Make more of it, and I'll send River after you.

FRUNK

Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
You may be right, but that doesn't make it any less lame. What would have made up for it (if it was revealed in the series) was the intervening years of character development. In Firefly, plot always took a backseat to character development. Let's face it, none of his actual stories (in terms of plot) are mind-bending. It is how he develops the characters and tells their stories one drop at a time that is addictive and ingenious.

In a movie, however, unless it is a serious drama or an arthouse flick, plot comes first. In this respect it just makes the inadequacies of the Reaver explanation all that more glaring. You do not have the luxury of having years of fascinating characters to make up for the weak writing. Come on, big experiment backfires on its creators? I think I read that in high school and it was called Frankenstein. The backfire wasn't even that creative.

Hmm, I think you overrate the quality of the vast majority of the other movies that are out there, and the importance of plot. I can count on one hand the number of main-stream movies I've seen where I actually cared about the plot. Most movies have such lame plots that I have to stop thinking about them or else I'll walk out of the theater. I wouldn't say Serenity had a first rate plot, but it was a cut above the average. At least equal to the series which is enough for me.

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
Not to mention that the Reavers just don't make sense. I know this dead horse has been thoroughly beaten, but I just still don't buy a society completely make up of psychotic sociopaths. Look how they fight...like a bunch of deranged idiots. Why haven't they turned on each other in the intervening years and wiped themselves out? Also, how does a planet (Miranda) just stay hidden? It took the BDHs all of 5 minutes to figure out where it was and plot a course. Planets aren't exactly small, you may have noticed. These are some of the reasons why I thought the twist was lame.

The movie just came off as a glorified episode. (And not a very good one at that.)

I agree the Reavers flying in space ships is a weak point, but not completely unbelievable. Some theories:

1. They have a pack mentality, other Reavers are part of the pack and they can cooperate with. Any other living being drives them mad.
2. If not in the presence of non-Reavers they gain a measure of sentience, enough to run a ship but just barely.

As for Miranda, the record of the planet wasn't completely expunged, but it was known that it was in Reaver space. That's enough to discourage most exploration, and the Alliance is actively limiting inquiry too.

All of this is beside the point though, it's beyond the scope of Firefly's focus. You might as well ask why they don't explain the engines on their spaceship or how they have gravity when flying in space. From actual physical reality these are both more pressing questions, but since it is science fiction we don't really worry about it.

The point of the show and the movie is the story of the crew, their survival or not and how they manage to keep flying despite the obstacles they encounter.

GROUNDED

Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
But I do know that after watching the BDM and listening to Joss' nonsense on the Objects in Space commentary I am not terribly excited about his future projects

What's not to like about the OIS commentary? It's not often a writer goes into that kind of enlightening detail about his work. And it certainly wasn't nonsense.

SAINTPROVERBIUS

Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HanoverFist:
In the movie the characters just seem ridiculous charactitures of themselves. I mean, Mal sucker-punched Simon twice in the pilot epsode (which I think is MUCH better than the BDM) and yet in Serenity he just lets Simon deck him and be insubordinate without so much as a b!tchslap in return? Please.

I'm pretty sure Mal knew he deserved the punch because of what happenned during the robbery. After all, he did drag Simon's sister in to a bad situation even though Simon objected to it. Mal wasn't expecting the Reavers to show up, but these things happen when you're on the border moons. Not to mention Mal was quite an ass to Simon before they left for the robbery.

Oh, and Mal didn't exactly know Simon when he punched him during the pilot. The movie is eight months later and Simon has saved Mal's life on a few occations since that pilot.

Quote:
Not to mention the fact that the central premise to the movie was just lame. The Reaver origin story was just weak. Maybe the lesson here is that Joss belongs on TV. He writes great dialogue, but the writing when it actually comes to plot is pretty weak. (i.e. The Train Job)

The Train Job was fairly crappy, I agree. The Reaver origin wasn't the greatest thing in the world and would have been better if done through the course several episodes on TV. However, this is a movie and Joss only had two hours with which to pack everything in.

The Train Job was basically the same thing. He had to pack a two hour character introduction piece in with a heavy dose of action to make FOX happy. That said, Serenity beats the pants off Train Job.

I think the Reaver thing would have been a lot better if instead of the pax thing they'd gone with some sort of psychological experimentation on soldiers for the Unification War. Then again, the idea of making super soldiers that blow up in the face of the people trying to make them is a bit cliche. The pax thing is counter cliche, trying to bring an end to violence and end up doing the opposite.

Basically, I think it was just too short an explanation for it to be "great". The same thing goes for the Simon/Kaylee hook up, it was just too short.

Quote:
I guess I am just very disappointed and sad. I just keep thinking to myself that it did not have to turn out this way.

Yes, it did.

Quote:
I also wish that Joss had been able to see a way to bring the BDM into this world without killing Firefly.

He didn't.

RIVER6213

Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:57 PM

Serenity was the 1st time I ever even heard of the Firefly 'verse and I loved it! It made me want to go and google Serenity when I got home from the movie, and that's when I found out about Firefly.

I like the captain; his character seemed strange and hard to place, but after watching the Firefly I series, I understood why. He was also very funny at certain points in the movie.

A couple of my favorite scenes with Mal (in the series) The episode where one of their old war buddies mails his dead body to them so they could take him home to his parents to be buried.

They do a flashback where I guess Zoe is explaining to this guy how a person should be on the battlefield; not seen. At at that moment, Mal comes into view screaming, laughing loud, yelling while mowing down some alliance soldiers with "You want some? Oh, you want some of this too?" Zoe turns around and says to the guys she talking too "some people have a differnt approach"

I laughed my azz off!

Another favorite scene with Mal comes off the 1st DVD, 1st episode of the series called Serenity when That alliance spy is holding a gun on Simon and Mal, right after Mal socked Simon thinking HE was the alliance stooge.

Mal looks up at the alliance guy when he realizes that he isnt the one the allince guy wants..its Simon, and as Mal slowly lowers his hands, he cocks his head and says "Is there a reward?" What makes this funny is that the light was shining up Mal's face, making him look like a very greedy, most opportunsitic person that ever existed. I laughed long time.

Anyway, back to Serenity the movie.

Zoe is the woman that all us women should be. she's tough, intelligent, and courageous, and at the same time has a heart as big as gold; she's no Reaver.

When Wash got killed, Zoe freaked for a few seconds, which is understandable(my heart went out to her), but then she got back in control, and that scene when those Reavers were attacking, I liked the way Zoe stood right there, holding her ground, firing round after round into the mass of Reavers, and when her shotgun emptied, she dropped it and went for a smaller weapon and kept firing, while moving TOWARDS the Reavers! I guess having the man you love get killed sort of makes you do such things

Kelly was funny and cute in the movie, but not as funny as when she was in the Firefly series; she lost some weight for the movie, and that took away from her pluckiness. It was almost like she was a different character in the movie.

Book was an interesting character, but he didnt really become totally interesting until I actually watched the series. In the movie he doesnt have a big role, so you really dont know much about him except that the crew seemed to care a lot about him.

I liked him a lot in the series. It was obvious that he was no mere shepard. I bet he was a general in the Alliance army during the war, and sent way too many people to their deaths that after the war was over, he decided to become a shepard, or he was an asssasin during the war. Just a guess.

Inarua was as beautiful as ever...I really like her, but I felt that her character was diminished in the movie; she was more ornamental (is that spelled right?) more than anything else, but I still like her; There something about her that makes me want to cry everytime I saw her in Firefly. What was she doing with the bow and arrows?

I liked some of Jayne's comments and jokes in the movie. I also liked the end when he was helping fight the Reavers, but I really never liked his character, and especially when I saw firefly, but I have to admit...I loved the Jaynes Town episode in the series; it was the only time I felt compassion for Jayne, but if you ask me, they should have spaced hiz azz long ago, but I hear there are people in this forum that love him, so I had better shut up.

I liked Wash a lot in the movie. I thought he was so funny and very sarcastic....very human he was, and I jumped out of my chair at the movie when he got killed by those Reavers, but I also felt good knowing

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