BDM Theory -- Needing some BC Feedback [spoilers]
POSTED BY: MajinBuu
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 05:46
VIEWED: 8528
PAGE 3 of 4
Excellent thread, so much to say! I for the most part agree, but I don't think that we are supposed to see parralles between the revears and the browncoats or those who laid down and died and those on the central planets, I think we are supposed to see the juxtaposition between the two however. Mal says the Alliance thinks they can make people better. There is nothing wrong with people being better and more peaceful, the key word is "make." This touches on a much broader theme that can be found...well...everywhere.
If God wanted us to just be peaceful people who love one another he could have just made us all that way, but he didn't, he gave us a choice, because chosing to do something makes it all the more real and sincere. God didn't want robots, he wanted people, thats why we make mistakes, so we can learn from them until we choose what is right.
This brings us back to belief. Doing what is right means nothing if you don't believe in what you are doing. Donating to charity for tax breaks isn't doing the right thing, but believing in a cause and giving to it, thats doing the right thing, that is why the Shepard tells Mal "Just believe."
There is a lot of Orwellian elements here, but I see more parralles to Huxley's Brave New World, where they manufactured(made) people and drugged them(soma=pax?) to keep them quiet and happy.
One last thing for you all to chew on, surprised no one else mentioned it, seeing as River said it in one episode or another: "Mal, bad, in latin."
...and now back to midterm studying....
-e
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It is also the way that corporations co opt the ideas and words of the ppl and use them for their own commercial uses...
it's the Pax... she goes on to use the exact name of the additive/drug (sorry I do not have total recall like some
the Alliance (and most big corporations now) are always taking words and symbols that we identify with and then tweaking them or outright corrupting them..
Pax/Peace is NOT bad... corporations/governments attempting to control ppl in the name of peace or belief or any other reason... is.
Remember that old old Star Trek where they have a chance to live in perfect harmony somewhere and Kirk just cannot go there.. says ppl not meant to go there artificially? They get there, if they do at all, by their own choice and journey.
2 cents worth.. not much more than that!
Chindi
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I think Mal and Inara do know how they feel, they just can't express it or act on it. That's why they are so conflicted. Inara leaves the ship because she has become too attached to everyone, not just Mal, although in her line of work she's probably forbidden to fall in love. And Mal knows that he could never be with her while she's a companion because he doesn't approve of her work.
With regards to Kaylee and Simon, it's true they never openly say they love each other, but it's implied. If it was just physical attraction then what's stopping them? They could have been going at it months ago. Even Mal remarks in the film that he can see Kaylee loves Simon, remember in the Maidenhead scene before the fight? And she points out that he feels the same about Inara.
But overall I don't just mean romantic love, I think the theme is more love in general, like the love they all have for the ship, or for each other, like a big 'ol family. That's what gets them through it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MajinBuu:
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SPOILER WARNING ** SPOILER WARNING **
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The Pax Gas, like the Alliance, is intended to legislate peace. To force peace, if you will. Totalitarian peace. The result of its use is a commentary on such attempts.
Most of the population "lies down." They die, as their spirit dies. The dead of Miranda are a symbolic representation of the Core Planets, taken to an extreme. Succumbed.
Salvation, for want of a better word, comes from the BDM's second theme: Belief. Belief runs like a River through the whole story. To name just a couple events: The Operative is dangerous because he is a "believer." And Shepherd Book tells Mal he must "believe." The preacher preaches no particulars, only belief in something greater than the self. This theme is as old as Mal kissing the cross around his neck in a fox hole in Serenity Valley.
"Watch me soar."
Hey oh boy what a great thread! Love hearing all your thoughts. Sharing at this level takes bravery, cudos.
(IMHO, all)
I find the overarching idea to be that there is no substitute for acting with love (integrity), from which all of the other themes in the movie arise. Without love, no belief grows wings, nor is salvation possible.
Mal's rudder is his love of freedom, but a freedom with integrity (acting in harmony, with love for self and other). Hiding the Tams has cost him his ability to act with integrity, so he spins about, sneaking and hiding on the raggedy edge, going from one dishonest caper to the next, and has sunk into a hell of apathy. I think that's what his rueful look is saying when River asks "do you?". He so very much doesn't want to be doing what he is, it goes against every fiber, but the Alliance hot on his tail has removed his freedom to act as he would, and he has let himself become something he hates; a man acting without love, bereft of his integrity.
I think Little River sets it all up in that first scene with her "We meddle" speech. Action without love; taking away the other's ability to choose, is the greatest evil of all. The Alliance does not love its citizens, it seeks to control and profit from them.
Action without love is both the cause and the effect of the Pax. The Alliance seeking to control the populace without their knowledge or consent. The sleepwalkers sinking into apathy, finally not eating, drinking, or even breathing. It's reflection, the rage of the Reavers: action (with passion) but without love.
I think that's what Book is saying in his final speech. His "comming from you means almost nothing" is complete irony; he knows Mal's heart, and that Mal has been hating himself for acting with minimal integrity for as long as they've known each other, hiding behind his loss of faith. He tells him to believe in what he loves, and act through that belief.
The Operative says 'Madness? No. Something a good deal more dangerous....it's love.' The Operative has passion and belief in his cause, but no love. In fact love frightens him. It's dangerous. If he had love, he would need to act with integrity. Poor Operative, he even knows he's a monster, acting with the passion of a fanatic, the ends justifying any means.
There is so much amazing writing in the movie, Joss really went all out. Mal's final speech, though, boy that one really gets me where I live...
"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home."
Then River's comment that the storm is getting worse (they've really opened a can of worms, and there may be hell to pay for all of them), and Mal's response (we'll pass through it soon enough) is about his having remembered that it's all about acting with love and integrity, and that makes them mighty.
Anyway, that's what I think. Thanks for listening, you guy
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Great contribution, Lim.
But it does raise a few questions for me. We use "love" in a lot of different contexts, and each seems to have a somewhat different connotation. There's the love of parent for child, f'rinstance, or the love between siblings, or between mates. But there's also love of country, love of one's deity of choice, love for a favorite food, erotic love, love of mankind, love for a fictional world and its inhabitants...
You see what I'm getting at. If love is the key, which flavor of love do we mean? And what are the implications if we apply the right love to the wrong situation, or vice versa?
It seems to me that the Operative did exhibit a kind of love, but one that was deeply misdirected. I guess the closest on my list would be love of country, or perhaps love of an unattainable ideal. Clearly that kind of love led to monstrosity.
So how do we know when we love not wisely, but too well?
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Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
If love is the key, which flavor of love do we mean? And what are the implications if we apply the right love to the wrong situation, or vice versa?
It seems to me that the Operative did exhibit a kind of love, but one that was deeply misdirected. I guess the closest on my list would be love of country, or perhaps love of an unattainable ideal. Clearly that kind of love led to monstrosity.
So how do we know when we love not wisely, but too well?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.
Sorry, that does need clarification, yah.
The kind of love I mean is what the Christians call agape. A golden rule "do unto others" kind of love. Tricksy place, since it's easy to have an opinion about what is best for others. Anytime the outcome of what you do takes choice away from others, then I'd say, that crosses over into 'too well'.
I think the Op exhibits belief and passion, but his is a belief in the agenda of others, without love, only an obsession with outcome.
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Wow, great thread. I have a few thoughts.
I like the ideas about love and I've been reading a lot of posts and never seen anyone address this thought about Kaylee and Simon (which also touches on the ideas of rebirth which I've seen mentioned): the crew of Serenity had one couple on board and that relationship was brought to a tragic end. So now, out of the death of that relationship, another is born: Simon and Kaylee. I don't think for one minute that their relationship would be anywhere near as smooth as Zoe and Wash's, but still, there it is.
If the story does continue I think it will be interesting to see the new dynamics onboard Serenity due to these changes. River, towards the end of the movie, also seems to have gained some significant clarity. If this actually holds true then Simon's roll as her guardian becomes far less important. I think this is why he allows himself to indulge with Kaylee. And River potentially goes from being the frail victim that needed all the protecting to the most powerful person onboard - aw hell, almost anywhere for that matter.
So now a few thoughts about Mal and Inara (I only mention this because, agian, I haven't seen anybody mention this anywhere else): Mal know deep down inside that he loves Inara. He says as much when he tells her that she tosses him about and mixes things up. And it's obvious to everyone else that Inara loves Mal as well (and I think she know it too deep down). The reason they have so much trouble (IMHO) is because in order for them to have a relationship that would work they would both have to give up pretty much everything else they know. Mal's job forces him to be loose and flexible. He has to be willing to go wherever he needs to at any time. And sort of emotional commitment just gets in the way (as was experienced in both the series and the movie) and an emotional attachment like the one he would share with Inara would force him to make radical changes to his way of life, the one thing he's absolutely unwilling to do. By the same turn if Inara allowed herself to give into her feelings for Mal she would pretty much destroy her ability to make a living the way she does. I mean really, could you be a Companion (going around and having sex with tons of people) and still be in a committed relationship? I'm sure there's a few out there who might be able to, but not most people (Inara included, I think). So they have this wonderful bond between them - a love for one another that they can't seem to deny - but their entire existence outside of that link pull them in opposite directions. If they are not willing to completely change their lives then that relationship will always be doomed - it just doesn't fit into the plans.
So maybe, if the story is to continue, that would be a theme that Joss would explore. Anyway, I love all this complexity, especially in something that is so much fun and easy to love.
"I don't wanna explode."
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Okay...getting off on a tangent now, BUT...musing over the reference to agapic love, and musing over these Mal/Inara reflections. Agapic love involves self-sacrifice for the loved one. It is sacrificial giving love. Anyone else notice that Inara, at the end of the movie, when she says, "I don't know" had almost ZERO make-up on? She looked like she was 16. A very different look from the typically glammed up Companion. Perhaps the "whore" who "supported unification" is changing? Or, perhaps Mal's final staking of a claim (not blowing North when the wind blows North, but making a stand) has changed her ideas about him?
Ohhhh, *sigh* endless speculation.
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bump
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