How do Reavers pilot ships, them being insane cannibals and such?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, December 2, 2021 20:06
VIEWED: 48258
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Citizen,
I'm confused. You're saying, essentially, that the explanation for the Reavers existence doesn't allow for the complex behaviors they exhibit on the show (like piloting ships). So, you say that they can't pilot ships?
That doesn't make much sense. Since we SEE them piloting ships, it hardly seems reasonable to suggest that they can't do it.
It seems more reasonable to say that your interpretation of what the effects of their origin would be (i.e. "less than a rabid animal") is wrong.
Select to view spoiler:
Clearly, Pax is more complex than it might first appear.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sep7imus:
That doesn't make much sense. Since we SEE them piloting ships, it hardly seems reasonable to suggest that they can't do it.
Erm, no. I'm saying Joss's explination for where they came from, and their behaviour don't mesh. I'm saying he, as a falible human being, albiet a talented one, made a mistake. Your argument invites the assumption that there is no such thing as a plot hole.
We see them do it therefore they can etc, is a post hoc and flawed analysis, is all.
Say I wrote a Zombie film, and in that film I explained that Zombies were rage filled beasts. That they were incapable of high-level reasoning and only 'lived' to kill. Then I had them driving a car and talking about today's weather. That would be a plot hole. It is also what people here are suggesting for Reavers.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Even though I might, even though I try,
I can't
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:
I think it makes sence that they want to do it small and under the radar. I don't know if we are aware of how big the alliance army is. But if they went head to head war agaisnt the reavers I think they may see that as a losing battle. Assuming it may take 10 men and 3 or so ships to each reaver and each reaver ship to even have a chance to defeat them. That's one hell of an army (what some 300,000 men and maybe 3000 or more ships?) they would have to send in. Not to mention that starting an all out war would draw a lot of attention to a "problem" that the alliance doesn't even what to admit is there. Thus that is why most people on the core planets think that reavers are just "ghost stories" and don't even know they are real. But the fact that the reavers are pushing into new territory.. they are not containing themselves, probably like the alliance had hoped they would and then just die off. Not to mention an all out war, if the alliance lost, THEN what would happen?? But if they had a special force of a couple dozen "rivers".. they could send them into reaver space and activate them and more or less let them spread from ship to ship taking out the reavers like a virus. Then when the reavers are gone, or at least heavily thined out, they send in a small army to go in and just clean up. At which point if any "rivers" are dead.. so be it.. and any that remain they deactivate and kill.. problem solved.
Where do you get the 10 to 1 (Men) and 3 to 1 (ship) kill ratio? We’ve only seen the Alliance fighting the Reavers once that they were planning on capturing only one unarmed smuggler ship not engaging in a full-fledged battle. The Alliance military’s ranks are no doubt filled with highly trained and well-equipped “sailors” (spacers?) and solders. While the Reavers despite there fearlessness and ferociousness are grossly out gunned. A bunch of big spears, some tow cables and a few EMPs doesn’t match up well against a full fleet of proper warships with guns, missiles, and fighters. Even at the Battle of Okinawa the US still managed a 5.5 to 1 kill ratio against the Japanese on the ground, in the air and on the sea the numbers were even more slanted. I think the only Alliance capital ship we see lost (Well I saw lost, I need to see the movie a couple more times to soak that whole sequence in) was destroyed by RAMING! The Reaver’s whole battle tactics concept seems to be one big Bonzi Charge. Such a maneuver against a prepared foe will either fail or succeed with massive casualties (see Battle of Chosin Reservoir), and with so few Reavers out there (someone before said 30,000 and that isn’t much, only a couple of Divisions worth) they can’t take many large losses before they simply run out of Reavers while the Alliance has reserve forces and can conscript new troops.
A covert action is preferable but the Alliance could wipe them out fairly quick if it came down to it and make up some good story to cover up the losses. After all the Alliance did seem to win the battle over Mr. Universe’s planet.
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Quote:
Where do you get the 10 to 1 (Men) and 3 to 1 (ship) kill ratio?
This is the internet.. I just pulled it out of my a$$
No seriously... not that I gave it THAT much thought.. but if you think that Reavers aren't just your typical advisary. They are horrifically insane. I was thinking more or less along the lines of aliens. If a half dozen well armed and highly trained space soliders went in and totally got their asses handed to them by about 100 or so aliens. Which made since. I figure if there were 100 marines they still would have lost, at least I believe that would. 300 marines.. hmmm.. maybe they would have pulled it out.. makes sense to me. 500 marines... probably would have done it with some serious casualites.. so it might take 1000 marines to win handedly. Better to just nuke em from orbit
So that is briefly where I got the 10 to 1 ratio. Not that this makes the 10 to 1 ratio valid.. I was just quickly trying to come up with a number that makes sense to me that it might take to handily win. But like I said.. I mainly pulled it out of my a$$
lol
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Quote:
A bunch of big spears, some tow cables and a few EMPs doesn’t match up well against a full fleet of proper warships with guns, missiles, and fighters.
Well don't you remember what those Ewoks did to the empire with much less than that??
lol.. and you can't tell me that reavers aren't million times bigger and badder than Ewoks?? :D lol.. /I keeed I keeed..
Smaug..
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Quote:We all know the Ewoks were able to do that because the Empire couldn't just use Nerve Gas on them from the safty of their tanks since they are a proper military force that follows the conventons of war unlike those Rebel crimnals.
Originally posted by Smaug:Quote:
A bunch of big spears, some tow cables and a few EMPs doesn’t match up well against a full fleet of proper warships with guns, missiles, and fighters.
Well don't you remember what those Ewoks did to the empire with much less than that??
/I keeed I keeed..
Smaug..
Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:Quote:
Where do you get the 10 to 1 (Men) and 3 to 1 (ship) kill ratio?
This is the internet.. I just pulled it out of my a$$
No seriously... not that I gave it THAT much thought.. but if you think that Reavers aren't just your typical advisary. They are horrifically insane. I was thinking more or less along the lines of aliens. If a half dozen well armed and highly trained space soliders went in and totally got their asses handed to them by about 100 or so aliens. Which made since. I figure if there were 100 marines they still would have lost, at least I believe that would. 300 marines.. hmmm.. maybe they would have pulled it out.. makes sense to me. 500 marines... probably would have done it with some serious casualites.. so it might take 1000 marines to win handedly. Better to just nuke em from orbit
Not that this makes the 10 to 1 ratio valid.. I was just quickly trying to come up with a number that makes sense to me that it might take to handily win. But like I said.. I mainly pulled it out of my a$$
Good point about Aliens. But Urban Warfare sucks. LOL The Colonial Marines did lose their commander in the first engagement and ended up being commanded by a Civilian with no reinforcements available. They went in prepared for a rescue mission and walked in to a firefight and got spanked, which happens. But in a full scale war I bet the Marines would win. I mentioned Okinawa, there a bunch of well…. errr… adequately trained troops (Highly trained Marines followed by moderately trained Army troops.) went up against a bunch of entrenched fanatical suicidal Japanese and won. Yea they blew them selves up and charged at US forces armed with nothing but a knife or sharp stick, some US units got hit bad but we still took the island. You can afford to totaly lose a couple of small units in exchange for taking your objective, simple mathmatics (yep you can kill'em with it).
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Citizen
I'll make this short and to the point.
1. I know this stuff all ready, I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance here.
2. I know a heck of a lot about the underlying science here, and I think Joss' scenario as laid out in the movie is spot on.
This stuff is fan theory, but also valid:
3. River wasn't made to kill reavers, she was made to be like a reaver, to add their abilities to an alliance assassin.
4. Someone make the analogy of sharks and reavers, I think by what we see, it's a good one. Obviously sharks are dumb, they don't have brains. But the similarity exists.
5. We only know how reavers communicate with normal humans, we have no idea how they communicate with each other, so all speculations are equally valid.
Story is problem solving by proxy, omniscient characters already know the answers ergo omniscience is the opposite of story.
Citizen. No offense. really, but I think you are missing several key points here.
1. Insanity. It's not the same thing as stupidity, it's not even related. It's like assuming someone is fat on the basis that you know their height and nothing else.
2. Writing. There are many things which work in stories, and many which do not.
3. Joss. Joss might make errors, but he doesn't make a lot of them. He's incredibly diligent. Anything which on the surface appears to be an error has to be examined very closely, because chance are it's not. Many people on the IMDb boards leapt to the conclusion that Joss made a goof.
I don't mean to be hostile or flame you, I'm just pretty sure that my posts were valid and I have plenty to back them up, but they are essentially only fan theories. Post you opposing ones. You just gave me too many attacks to respond to at any more length. If you have a specific gripe, post the one thing that's bugging you and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.
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I agree with the number that came out of Smaug's ass. More or less. I mean we see them fight with some kickassedness. It took a whole bunch of alliance to take one down in the knife in the wormhole ep. whatever it's name was. people keep saying it, it's on the tip of my brain.
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I dont think River was developed to take out the Reaver's. I think River was made to use against political targets- just in case the Browncoats try to rise again or some new group threatens the Parliament. The Reavers were never a big deal to the Alliance- unless they start hitting the Central Planets- right now it is much more cost effective or easier to write off Reavers as the campfire tales of some gorram mudfarmers on the Rim, and wait for the Reavers to die out on their own. But as we saw in the movie (sorry spoiler coming) the Military knew who the Reavers were and DID NOT want to tangle with them, so they might have lost some ships or special forces to them.
"This is something the Captain need to take care of himself."
"No he doesnt!"
"Oh...Oh!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Citizen said they're too messed up to efficiently run a spacecraft or work together coherently; I maintain that they have selective psychosis, and are able to do what needs to be done in service to their insane bloodlust.
What are the theories regarding this, anyone care to set us straight?
Chrisisall creepafied
DUDE, 2 words.......AUTO PILOT!
Remember what LOUIS VUITTON said: "It's in the bag!"
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