Does this Make Sense!?!?

POSTED BY: XanderHarris
UPDATED: Sunday, October 9, 2005 13:25
VIEWED: 13249
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JASONZZZ

Saturday, October 8, 2005 4:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:
Hate to say this, but the "average" moviegoer usually decide on what to watch based on who made it and who is in it.

My mother is like that, if you put a star she likes in the movie she'll go, she doesn't even try to figure out if it will be good or not.

Two For the Money is an example, she's not even really sure what it is about but she's all ready to see it. All that she really knows about the movie is who is in it, and while that isn't enough to make her buy it later on it is all that it takes to get her in the theater.

A lot of people are like her.

but didn't practically everyone on this board decided that Serenity would be worth watching simply because of the actors in it, who directed it, and what "genre" it's in? (I realize that it's not easily categorizable, but eventhough there isn't a Hollywood name for this sort of movie, we can all agree on "the bucket" that it goes into - sort of)

all before the pen was lifted to putthe script onto paper?

I guess the question is, how's that different from
"your mom" or the average joe/jane using - to me - the very same decision process.

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CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, October 8, 2005 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I guess the question is, how's that different from "your mom" or the average joe/jane using - to me - the very same decision process.

She only knows the actors in the movie and makes a decision based on that. Before Serenity existed, before it had a name or a studio, I knew not just the actors, but also the characters, the setting, the style, the director, and the writer.

Would I have gone to the movie if I just knew the actors? No. Hell no. Even if every actor from every episode of Firefly appeared in a movie I wouldn't go to it if that was all I knew about the movie.

I need more information than that. Great actors create crap movies all the time.

JASONZZZ

Saturday, October 8, 2005 5:55 PM

Yes, but you had as much real knowledge of the final product as she would on any given movie. You assumed that it would be the same based on what you think *might* come out... She might have based her decision on some spurious other set of assumptions of the premise, the color of the posters, the trailer... The truth of it is probably none of us really get to make those kinds of decision on facts, evaluations of the product, or some sort of objective internal barometer/gauge .
We really just base it on assumptions, feelings, and star power.

Yeah, great actors get into bad movies all the time. If people only know that there are only about 2 or 3 actors who actually get to *use* their craft. The rest of them are just doing the jobs the director and scripts would have them do - they just somehow come out looking great in some of these movies. We fall in love with them all anyways... At the end of it all, it's usually the editor/director teams that you ought to be making your decision with.

So, I am not saying that it might absolutely drive you insane to *not* go see another movie if you see Nathan, or Summer, or anyone else in the show. But think about this hypothetical situation, you see 2 movies coming out this summer, one some droopy comedy-drama with the standard Hollywood cast, and another not-quite-exactly-what genre, maybe comedy, maybe drama movie but with either Nath, Summer, or Gina, or whomever from the cast. You are telling me that it wouldn't weight as a factor in influencing your decision to which movie you would pick? Or when JW comes out with Wonderwoman, you are telling me that you wouldn't be influenced to watch it - even without knowing anything about the rest of how the characters are developed or what plot is going to be foisted on you, that the simple fact that JW has something to do with it (that's whethher you worship him or not) that you wouldn't be more willing to catch that flick?

I am not saying that you don't take out the Christ -the-completely-objective-measuring-stick-to-moviedom every single time you need to watch a movie. I'm just saying I think pretty much everyone use that same internal gauge in most instances or another. Using some small bit of relatively minor information (actor, or director, genre, poster color, trailer they've seen) - some bit of information that they feel they "know" about and assume that it will be exactly the way to their liking in this movie as well - to gauge their decision on rather then objectively weighing the final product for its ultimate worth.

I think you are saying that you've made an objective decision based on a set of well known criteria and very good first hand information as compared to just knowing the actor's name or the director's name (for instance, I might place a higher consideration in watching a "Ridley Scott" flick), or a particular setting, or type of story line.

I question that if that isn't pretty much the same type of evaluation process.

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I guess the question is, how's that different from "your mom" or the average joe/jane using - to me - the very same decision process.

She only knows the actors in the movie and makes a decision based on that. Before Serenity existed, before it had a name or a studio, I knew not just the actors, but also the characters, the setting, the style, the director, and the writer.

Would I have gone to the movie if I just knew the actors? No. Hell no. Even if every actor from every episode of Firefly appeared in a movie I wouldn't go to it if that was all I knew about the movie.

I need more information than that. Great actors create crap movies all the time.

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CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, October 8, 2005 6:39 PM

You’re making too many assumptions, I said she only knew the actors and I meant it, this is a person I know, she is my mother after all, and I have this information because she told me. Could she have lied to me? Sure. But I think it is more likely that when she said all she knew about the movie in question, Two For the Money, was the actors in it I believed her. When she has told me the same about movies before I believed her.

As for the information I had, I think you can say that I had a fair amount more. If you want to really get into it the information I had was the same amount I had about the Borne Supremacy having seen the Borne Identity, which is a hell of a lot more than I knew about the movie Laserhawk after going to see the movie Star Wars.

Knowing the characters, how the actors play the characters, the setting and the basic style are important things, and these I knew before Serenity. How did I know it? The same way I knew how Harrison Ford would play Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back after seeing Star Wars.

You say that I didn’t have any information going in, but I did, and you know it.

-

Of course who is in a movie, and who is making it effects my decision, but it doesn’t make my decision. An example is Wonderwoman.

I can honestly say that I like or love every single thing Joss has done that I have seen, but that does not make me want to go see Wonderwoman in the least. In fact I don’t even plan to find out more about it.

If I wanted to see the movie Joss being involved would make me want to see it more, and if I were on the fence Joss’ involvement would probably be enough to push me to watch it, but Joss’s involvement alone I nowhere near enough.

I’m not saying that I’m objective. I’m remotely not objective. I am saying that there is a difference between letting who is involved in a movie influence your decision and letting it make your decision. I’m also saying that it seems like many people, perhaps most, let such things make the decision, and that makes it difficult for things like Serenity.

I'm not even saying that my way is the right way, I'm just saying that the way many others do it makes things harder for us.

REALLYKAYLEE

Saturday, October 8, 2005 6:49 PM

it's been raining non-stop for two days on the east coast!

shakespeare: more words than God.

GGIII

Saturday, October 8, 2005 6:55 PM

Okay... So I don't post often. I mostly read the boards...

That being said, I'm sick of hearing people say that the way Wash died was pointless.

Wash had no real combat skills. Any death where he did not die at the helm would indeed be pointless, since piloting is his only real ability.

If he had died in a firefight it would have seemed like lack of skill, rather than a dignified death.

I thought that the way Wash died was brilliant. It was the only way that Wash could ever have a meaningful death.

You can't take the sky from me.

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Saturday, October 8, 2005 7:03 PM

What I find funny about this (somewhat like finding the video of the guy getting hit in the crotch with a football: painful+funny) is the way the Browncoat community got it's hopes WAY too high on this one. Can't even tell you how many times I heard "It'll be the next Star Wars" (or the even more ridiculous, "It'll be even BIGGER than Star Wars!"). I tried to keep my hopes modest--moderate success, but enough for a franchise. And I'm not even seeing that. I've been snippy with my wife for about 10 days, and couldn't figure it out. I finally realized that I'm so disappointed by how the numbers are coming out that I'm taking that disappointment out on her (bad on me, yeah). But god--it feels like there's been a death in the family.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

TJACK

Saturday, October 8, 2005 7:43 PM

I'm going to say some unpopular things, unfortunatly they're also true.
Though I loved the movie, if you aren't a fan of the show you don't have the emotional connection to the characters to give a damn what happens to them.
Even worse, nowadays Box Office numbers are generated by teenagers seeing the same movie over and over again(i.e. Titanic) and Serenity is too tough(well written) for the average teen to understand.
In short ...We're Doomed.

No matter what happens, they can't take this away from us.

JASONZZZ

Saturday, October 8, 2005 7:52 PM

Well, all things being equal... All I'm saying is , there is no difference to me between the two processes. At the end, it's making decisions based on what you assume and interpret to be sufficient information.

If all you know are the actors, then what's the difference in making the decision based on what you know (well, "think" you know anyways) and having the decision made for you or being "influenced" by it?

You are saying that the difference is:
1) knowing just one piece of information (your mom only knowing the actor for example) is merely being influenced by it.
2) and implying that perhaps finding out more or "knowing" more can help her make the decision.

The assumption being that the *is* in fact a lot of difference between simply being influenced into a decision and making a decision on your own. She made a decision either way - no one "forced" her, right? It *is* her decision to make.

There is also an assumption that should she have *more information*, perhaps she would make the "right" decision. Implying that she would likely made a less worthy decision or worse - a wrong decision...

My point is this:

Even having slightly more information to which you assume you possessed does not a better or more worthy decision it make. The thing is, it's all flawed data based on assumptions and interpretations. You equate a dozen different things that you assumpted would be the same in the movie without knowing really what the movie is. Average joe/jane (or your mom) maybe use 1 or 2 of these types of assumptions for data points (Oh, I liked how Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt in that other movie, maybe they'll bring the same type of emotional portrayal..)... Well, what's the difference?

It doesn't matter if you have one piece of flawed data or 12 million pieces of it. Any decisions based on them would end up more or less being no better than not having any information - in most cases, likely worse. Unless if you do in fact possess actual knowledge of the final product - that's real data based on real evaluations of the real product; it *is* all flawed data. All things being equal, my recommendation is that decisions based on even more flawed data point takes it even further away from the random decision based on throwing darts at a board. At the end, there is this complete set of assumptions of what the outcome might be that likely isn't going to match up with reality...

That being said, this is all very completely different from valid regression analysis.

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
You’re making too many assumptions, I said she only knew the actors and I meant it, this is a person I know, she is my mother after all, and I have this information because she told me. Could she have lied to me? Sure. But I think it is more likely that when she said all she knew about the movie in question, Two For the Money, was the actors in it I believed her. When she has told me the same about movies before I believed her.

As for the information I had, I think you can say that I had a fair amount more. If you want to really get into it the information I had was the same amount I had about the Borne Supremacy having seen the Borne Identity, which is a hell of a lot more than I knew about the movie Laserhawk after going to see the movie Star Wars.

Knowing the characters, how the actors play the characters, the setting and the basic style are important things, and these I knew before Serenity. How did I know it? The same way I knew how Harrison Ford would play Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back after seeing Star Wars.

You say that I didn’t have any information going in, but I did, and you know it.

-

Of course who is in a movie, and who is making it effects my decision, but it doesn’t make my decision. An example is Wonderwoman.

I can honestly say that I like or love every single thing Joss has done that I have seen, but that does not make me want to go see Wonderwoman in the least. In fact I don’t even plan to find out more a

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