are fans boycotting the movie? (major spoilers)
POSTED BY: XanderHarris
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 16:27
VIEWED: 20975
PAGE 2 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by fireflyfan278:
I'm not "happy to leave the verse".
Then don't leave it. Go see the movie again, and give the people who are saying you missed something vital a chance to prove their point. You're willing to shell out DVD cash for a new set of series DVD's; spend a quarter of that and see the BDM again. Here's my take on why I think the people in this thread are correct:
If you want boring sci-fi, and boring shows, there's plenty out there. There has never been a single episode of ST(any), SG1, or SGA that has ever kept me on the edge of my seat or in suspense. You know why that is? No tension. Oh, there have been several that were good, beautifully written, powerful episodes, but never any that gave me any real spine-wrenching worry that things weren't going to turn out alright in the end. Serenity did that. After the scene in question, I was on the edge of my seat; I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. What was going to happen next? Were they going to make it? No River, don't go out there, they'll kill you!!!!!!
I see a lot of movies. I'm an English teacher, and I belive in movies as a great way to teach things like plot, setting, oral interpretation, yadda yadda yadda. Serenity had it all. Was I happy about what Whedon did? Gotta say no way. But in a way, he's even greater to me now, because he put all his folks out on the line to deliver his story to us, and some couldn't make it, which makes the movie gripping and heartbreaking.
But, hey, if you want to boycott it, that's your right. But-and I say this not to be mean, but to be true-don't ever sit around and say "they never put anything good on TV anymore, and all the movies they release are crap," because you lost that right. Studios put out junk because people don't want to feel and don't want to think, they just want a bunch of happy zombies at the theater. You can be one if you choose; I choose not to be--Serenity will soar for me again this weekend (my 4th time).
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Yes, some fans aren't happy about events in the movie and are seemingly happy to leave the 'verse. That's their choice and their right and I for one wish them nothing but the best and hope that they find some soulless, mediocre, unambitious piece of genre schlock that fulfills their every need. Voyager seems to be the obvious choice but you know, it's not like there's a shortage of such unchallenging shows.
Yeah, if they wanted "safe" boring story lines where no one dies (or if they do, some techobabble miracle brings them back....hello SPOCK), they should stick with any of the Star Trek series or either of the Stargate shows.
Let's not forget, Joss is famous for killing charaters off, and then finding a way to bring them back. Some have died (Tera, Doyle, Cordy) and stayed dead, but others have returned. Buffy died twice, Spike and Angel died once, and they all came back. Fred died, but the actress playing her continued on the show as Iliria, a demon using Fred's body. This may not really be the end of Wash (maybe he had a twin), but if there isn't any sequels, we'll never find out!
I hated seeing Wash die too (it was shocking and heartbreaking), but his death was reailistic considering the mess they were in the middle of! Now we all know why Reavers are so feared. When they show up, people end up dead! Joss didn't take the safe route, and obviously it has upset many fans, but frankly, safe is boring, and Joss doesn't know how to do boring! If the series had continued, characters would have died! In 14 episodes, every character but Inara had been stabed or shot. Considering the risky lives these characters lived, death was inevitable. In Joss' worlds (like our own) good people die in battle, especially when the stakes are high. In some ways, I hope that Joss doesn't find some clever way to bring Wash back. The realism of Firefly/Serenity is what makes it better than Star Trek!
What Joss does so well, is show how deaths effect and change the remaining characters. I want a sequel, to see how Mal deals with the death of one of his crew. Will that loss make him want to hold onto Inara even more, or will it make him want to keep more distance from a relationship like Zoe had with Wash. I want to see how Zoe copes with the loss of the love of her life. Will it harden her, or force her to rethink her loyalties to Mal (who's very actions led them into the situation where Wash was killed), or will she be even more protective of the remaining members of her shipboard family. I want to see how River develops, and how well she learns to pilot Serenity. I also can't wait to see how the relationship of the new couple, Simon and Kaylee develops. Will they have a soulmate relationship like Zoe and Wash did, or will their journey be more rocky? Wash's death, while heartbreaking, is realistic. What's important at this point, is how those he left behind deal with his death. I for one want to see that!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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I'm sorry if you think those of us who didn't like certain aspects of the movie are insignificant and annoying.
I do agree that what we saw was probably the collapsed story arch from one or more potential TV seasons rolled up into one movie that Josh saw fit to create as the potential final entry of the verse he had created.
Not knowing whether there will ever be a sequel, he tied up what he saw as loose ends and sent the crew on its way with a sense of finality that can either stand alone as the last piece or be used as a seque into movies or tv shows to come.
In that sense it was well done. Certain parts of it didn't work for me. I don't like action movies in which my heroes die.
For sevenpercent:
You said "to be true-don't ever sit around and say "they never put anything good on TV anymore, and all the movies they release are crap," because you lost that right."
You are incorrect. In my verse, we are all still free to bitch about any BIG DAMN THING we want. Hey, I bought the DVD set and have told everyone who will listen it may be the best TV show EVER MADE. I have the right to do that and I have the right to say I didn't like parts of the movie. And my saying I didn't like parts of the movie doesn't take away my right to free speech.
So "Let's not be excluding people. That'd be rude."
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I've given the whole thing some thought, and I think I understand the reason for the strong reaction among some small groups of people.
It basically comes down to this. The reason why people become fans of the show is because they identify with one or more characters on the show, and the character they identify with the most, almost becomes their avatar on the show.
And because creators only put 9 people on the ship, they cannot incorporate every personality arch type. Which explains why some people simply don't get into the show, they don't find anyone they can really identify with among the crew.
So if a person really identifys with a certain pilot, and thinks of that pilot as their alter-ego on the show, when that person is killed off. Their reaction is going to be different than somebody like me who identifies with another character. For that person, he's going to feel that he's been literally "kicked off the ship", and although for you and me the story can continue because our avatar's story continues, those people felt their story ended, and they are in the same situation as someone who could never get into the show to begin with, for the same reason, nobody to identify with.
That basically is my explanation for the extreme negatvie reaction of some, they literally feel that Joss Whedon has told them to "get off my ship" and kicked into the black abyss of space.
I have a suspicion, though, that should the story continue another character of the same arch type will be introduced to fill the void.
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**SPOILERS**
I was really pissed when I first saw it but the more I thought about it the more sense it made. First you gotta expect it if you've ever watched any of Joss' other shows. I mean how many people died in Angel? I didn't watch much Buffy but I know there were some deaths there as well. Now that I've really thought about it not only did someone other than Book need to die (cause he was barely even in the movie) but the way it was done unceromoniously was perfect. When someone dies in real life there is no slow motion drama with sad yet heroic music...they just die. That was well done, yet shocking and so so so so so sad. I still wish it didn't happen but hey, it won't keep me out of the verse.
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Am I ever with you there. I was unhappy that Wash died, but... people die. It happens. How do people that refuse to have anything to do with Firefly because someone died deal with real life?
SImonWho said:
Quote:
"Yes, some fans aren't happy about events in the movie and are seemingly happy to leave the 'verse. That's their choice and their right and I for one wish them nothing but the best and hope that they find some soulless, mediocre, unambitious piece of genre schlock that fulfills their every need. Voyager seems to be the obvious choice but you know, it's not like there's a shortage of such unchallenging shows."
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Quote:
Originally posted by fireflyfan278:
For sevenpercent:
You said "to be true-don't ever sit around and say "they never put anything good on TV anymore, and all the movies they release are crap," because you lost that right."
You are incorrect. In my verse, we are all still free to bitch about any BIG DAMN THING we want. Hey, I bought the DVD set and have told everyone who will listen it may be the best TV show EVER MADE. I have the right to do that and I have the right to say I didn't like parts of the movie. And my saying I didn't like parts of the movie doesn't take away my right to free speech.
So "Let's not be excluding people. That'd be rude."
My point was not to be exclusionary, nor did I say you couldn't talk about whatever parts of the movie you did or did not like.
You are doing with that part of my post exactly what you did with the BDM - You're focusing on the literal words in my post you didn't like instead of taking them at their larger meaning.
Are you saying you want good, thrilling sci-fi, or are you saying you want boring, standard junk because it is safe? If you want thrilling stuff, you have to take the good with the bad (like something happening to a major character that you liked). My broad point (which you missed) is that you can't argue that you want bold, engaging movies if you aren't willing to risk it all. If I were to wake up tomorrow and say, "I never want another book that I read to include any real emotional engagement," then I'm in for a very boring read for the rest of my life. But then I also wouldn't be able to complain that the books I'm reading are boring, because I'd have lost the right to, figuratively speaking- I've made my choice, I have to either live with it or change.
Next time, read and think about the whole post before you pull a quote out of context. And think about what is being said in a larger frame of understanding and comprehension of deeper meaning.
Then go see the BDM again and apply those same ideas.
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Fans? Boycotting? These 2 words don't go together. It's okay to be upset if things didn't go well for your favourite character. I wasn't exactly happy, but it worked for me. Actively boycott, and still call yourself a fan? huh.
Yeah, I know what's it's like to have things go poorly for a favourite character. Imagine how fans of Obi-Wan felt in '77. And he never showed up in another SW film.....until the next one. But after that we never saw him again.....'til the next one. But after that he was gone....until the next 3.
I've read that this film was, more or less, season 2 condensed to 2 hours. Also, "all 9 cast are signed for 3 movies and will be back in sequels." I love the idea someone posted earlier (sorry I forgot who) about River just sitting up on the bridge laughing out loud at his jokes, and others being confused. Um..psychic. Not hard to see how they might be around. I know it's not the same. I know it still hurts. But, active boycotting? 
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So...let me see if I got this straight. Because we don't like the gratuitous deaths of major characters (BTW Wash was not my favorite character), and have some issues with this endeavor, we are dithering simpletons and we should find simpler faire for our feeble minds where major characters don't die, right? Like maybe...FIREFLY?!? Let's grasp some perspective here, people. Some people dislike Serenity because it was a cinematic disappointment, not because we're sad that our avatar(?) died. And I think I'm going to hurl if one more person says "(it) had to happen, because that's how it happens in real life. That's reality, man!" I said it on another post (but deleted it to accomodate peoples' squeemishness) and I'll say it again...If Joss wants to show the horrors of war and gunplay, then Jayne's arm is blown off for example. In "real life" you don't take 3 high caliber rounds to the shoulder and walk away with a few small puncture wounds. Show of hands...how many people out there have ever been in combat or had to draw a weapon in fear for their or their mates' lives? So please, let's see these plot devices for what they are...PLOT DEVICES used for shock value. Look I'm sure this will rile some people, and if it does...I appologize. I have no desire to leave this franchise...can we just discuss this movie and work through some possible improvements so that maybe Joss/Universal can get some feedback on what works/what doesn't? Maybe we can have a positive impact on this franchise again. BTW...Active boycotting and/or not even giving Serenity a chance? Lame. Pure and simple.
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