Post Serenity: Is the Fireflyverse even remotely pro-government anymore?*warning: spoilers*
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2005 06:58
VIEWED: 10014
PAGE 3 of 11
Sorry Finn, if I was too vague. You seemed, to me, too be suggesting that the Alliance was a socialist totalitarian society, and your point in your later post was the exact point that I was trying to make. There’s no evidence that the Alliance is either way.
My comment on the US was in no way trying to put the US as a dictatorship, I was merely trying to point out that there’s good and bad in both leftwing and rightwing politics if taken purely...
You seemed to be arguing the point (I stress seemed) that Totalitarian regimes are leftwing. Also, Nazism and Fascism is not identifiable leftwing.
As for dictatorships/totalitarianism being mainly leftwing, I could argue that point too, but I really think its a topic for another thread, so I won't.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:Since Nazism is a form of socialism, which is identifiably Left-wing, I would say that’s not necessarily true.
Originally posted by citizen:
Also, Nazism and Fascism is not identifiable leftwing.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
Since Nazism is a form of socialism
Quote:
The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader.
http://www.remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html
That article sets out Nazism as rightwing. I wouldn't go that far, however. I'd say nazism didn't have a political left/right ideology. They were far centre if you will.
Nazism took from both left and right in order to produce a totalitarian state with was neither identifiably totally left nor totally right.
The fact that Nazism is a contraction of National Socialism (Nationalsozialismus in the German) does not mean left-wing.
National Socialism arguably stems from the citizen to nation relationship within Nazism, where as Socialism is more traditionally defined as "public ownership over the means of production".
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Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
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Quote:Except that it was a socialist state where economic power was centralized on the government, social programs were nationalized, and the class warfare was politically exploited, like in most other Left-wing government.
Originally posted by citizen:
The fact that Nazism is a contraction of National Socialism (Nationalsozialismus in the German) means nothing.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Finn, the point you responded to was clarified shortly after I posted it.
Your arguing how Nazism resembles left-wing politics in some ways. Did you read my post?
I'm not refuting that, I'm saying it is neither left nor right, it takes aspects of both.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
and the class warfare was politically exploited, like in most other Left-wing government.
Yes, they also politically exploited the populations irrational fears, like in most Right-wing governments.
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Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
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Quote:I don't know if that was his aim, Mal is TOTALLY in line with what I think of as a sympathetic, viable hero, and I could get along w/him just fine.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think in attempting to create what Joss, perhaps, believes is the ultimate unsympathetic hero, he has effectively created what I would see as a genuine hero.
Just remember to call him sir Chrisisall
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Quote:Maybe you’re a closet conservative?
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I don't know if that was his aim, Mal is TOTALLY in line with what I think of as a sympathetic, viable hero, and I could get along w/him just fine.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think in attempting to create what Joss, perhaps, believes is the ultimate unsympathetic hero, he has effectively created what I would see as a genuine hero.
Just remember to call him sir Chrisisall
I really don’t know what Joss thinks. I find the complexity of character rather impressive, though. I read some article that compared Han Solo and Indiana Jones to Mal, but even if you combined them together into the uber Handiana Jolo, he still would lack the complexity of Malcolm Reynolds, I think. It's just pure genius.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:Yes and Yes.
Originally posted by citizen:
Finn, the point you responded to was clarified shortly after I posted it.
Your arguing how Nazism resembles left-wing politics in some ways. Did you read my post?
Quote:Which is not exclusive to a Right-Wing governments. Left-wing governments also exploit irrational fears among the population for political gain. This has nothing to do with Left or Right.
Originally posted by citizen:
Yes, they also politically exploited the populations irrational fears, like in most Right-wing governments.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Marxism is a totalitarian ideology? Geez there must've been a revised edition or something.
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Are these our lives? NNNOOOOOO!!!
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Quote:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout
/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1127384288085&call_pageid=968867495754&col=969483191630&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes
"I'm not trying to make a polemic and it's definitely not a partisan film in the sense that Mal is, if not a Republican, certainly a libertarian, he's certainly a less-government kinda guy. He's the opposite of me in many ways," Whedon says.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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