What else can I say? IMMENSE spoiler warning

POSTED BY: BadgersHat
UPDATED: Friday, October 7, 2005 18:01
VIEWED: 7129
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CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 4:39 AM

Badger's Hat,

You might want to change the title of this thread to *MAJOR spoiler warning*. Some posts in this thread have spelled out specific details of MAJOR plot developments. Newbies will thank you.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

JASONZZZ

Wednesday, October 5, 2005 5:48 AM

bah

Like Fireflyfans.net?
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
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JWC

Friday, October 7, 2005 12:34 AM

I find I agree with your main points, with this exception. (Also IMO)

"And if Wash was real enough for us all to hurt this way, then Joss Whedon did his job right!"

There is no doubt that he can make us care about his characters. What I ahve a big problem with having them killed off just to evoke an emotional response. This is blatant manupilation. Wash didn't die because he was herioc. He died just to make us FEEL bad. By that I mean his death didn't serve the plot. He was a sacrifice, killed by the creator, to make us feel a certain way. To me, this is not story telling. It's just having your chain yanked.

I mean in the entire scene with the reavers, is it ever explained how they were able to shoot giant wooden stakes. And if they had 'particle beam weapons', why didn't they just fire those. (Answer: Cuz they are REAVERS, and they're just crazy like that. One takes off and they all follow! Reaver see, reaver do!) Now if the entire reaver fleet taking off to attack Serenity and ending up in battle against another fleet to attack Serenity, well just how contrived can you get?

I think if there is another movie or series or 'straight to video', Mal should get a reaver as a pilot. Apparently they fly thier death crates pretty well! And you should see em launch a stake! Good thing Wash wasn't a vampire! But then again, he'd still be dead wouldn't he? Ah well....

Finally, Wash did die in vain. The reason they wanted the worlds to know about what happened on Miranda was to get justice for the victims. Those responsible should pay. Nobody paid. Folks turned reaver, a planet is dead, and nobody got a slap on the wrist for it. The only repercussion was to the crew of Serenity being warned by the assasin that people in Parliment were not happy. Other than that, apparently nobody takes the responsibility for the deaths. (Kind of like Bush...)

As for spoiler warnings, the first post in this thread had a warning. Does it need to be repeated in every post?

JWC

SOMEPEOPLEJUGGLEGEESE

Friday, October 7, 2005 1:47 AM

i can't help but agree, i do think that Joss did a good job with making us love Wash and everyone else, but i don't see what the point is of killing him off. And i would love to have another series or something, but it just wouldn't be the same without Wash and Book, that was what made Firefly so good, not just how great the show was, but everyone got along and when everyone gets along, everything is better. After Wash died, i thought Joss was just gonna kill everyone off. I still loved the movie though, and want to see it again.

Zoe: "If she can fly the ship, why take the shuttle?"
Wash: "Maybe she liked shuttles..."
(Silence)
Wash: "Some people juggle geese!"

JWC

Friday, October 7, 2005 4:05 AM

Your reply brings up another thought. It just isn't "Firefly" without the whole crew.
I also had to wonder if the 'franchise' can keep going at two losses per movie.

What is really saddest to me is that the one character with a genuine sense of humor is gone. Wash was the jester. Now we have a thinned out bunch with a bad attitude (sort of sums up the fan base right now...)
Anyhoo, a terrible decision, and I'll regard any future Whedon product with reserve, knowing that I'll be lulled into liking characters just so they can be sacrificed. Welcome to the suck...

JWC

KAYLEEFRYE

Friday, October 7, 2005 5:01 AM

The reason Wash died was so you would believe that no one else was safe. That was the purpose, from the writer's point of view. It made you believe this danger was real. Without that, it would be just a tra-la-la in the park, which a confrontation with reavers is certainly not. It was for realism.

Also, Alan Tudyk himself suggested the idea of killing Wash because it would be a sympathetic kill, and he liked the way Wash died, with no "Go on without me, I'll hold them off"s because that's not what real life is like.

Besides which, aren't we taking this a little bit seriously? Don't get me wrong, I saw the movie three times and cried all three times when he died, but some of us are acting like it has ruined our lives here. It is just a movie, let;s not all freak out and get angry over a character;s death in a movie.

People we love die all the time. There are people in the Middle East dying every day. There are soldiers dying every day, too. That is what war is, war is death. And Mal and the crew of Serenity couldn't take on a war like this without facing some deaths of their own. Think how lucky we are that we didn't lose Zoe when she was knifed in the back, or Kaylee when she was darted, or Simon when he was shot, or River when she faced the Reavers, or Mal when he faced the Operative. Just keep all that in mind.

And think how lucky we were to see Wash again at all! If we didn't have this movie, Wash and everyone else would be just as dead as if we had seen them die. So let's be thankful for that. Instead of dwelling on how we lost Wash, let's revel in the fact that we got to see him again.

LORDCHUTULU

Friday, October 7, 2005 5:15 AM

i agree that i at least am taking this a little seriously. all i can say is that i agree. life is pain. i get enough death, disease, and destruction from the news let alone real life (i have a couple close family members who are terminally ill). when i put my emotion into make believe, all i ask for is a happily ever after. not any show will do. i can't stand all the fluffy, shallow b.s. that passes for entertainment these days. firefly was deep, funny, and like all the greatest sci-fi, the fi didn't run off and leave the sci behind. put the characters in peril... but at least get them to the hospital and on the mend in the end. it was a dream come true to get to see the whole crew again. but like i said in another thread, to me this wasn't a continuation of the story, but an end.

SOMEPEOPLEJUGGLEGEESE

Friday, October 7, 2005 1:23 PM

Don't get me wrong, i loved the movie. And even Wash and Book being killed off can't stop that. I don't think that it is the end of the world because they died, i'm just a little upset, and them dying isn't going to stop me from seeing it again this weekend.

Zoe: "If she can fly ths ship, why take the shuttle?"
Wash: "Maybe she likes shuttles..."
(Silence)
Wash: "Some people juggle geese!"

SPDRPARKER

Friday, October 7, 2005 2:25 PM

Has anyone stopped to consider that Wash fell to Reavers? Which were created by the government body chasing Serenity?

Not only did Wash's death show the very real threat in this big rush to send out the message, which was incredibly effective. But Wash was one of the "innocent" people that were dying because of this action by the Alliance. When Mal responds to the operative "You have no idea how true that is." I can only believe that Wash's death helps enforce the belief that this is more than the right thing to do to the captain.

Wash didn't die heroicly, but he became part of the reason for the actions that were already in motion. We can't really care for the people the Reavers have killed, despite all the talk, there's really no sense of wanting to see the horrid secret of the Reavers revealed than to see how things react. With Wash's demise due to Reavers, it can instill a point of justice to not only the characters, but also the fans.

Wash was probably my favorite character(hard to straight out choose with this many good characters), but the point of his death drove hard some basic plot facts, you just have to look at it from the plot and not how attached you were to the character.

Corbitt
Just that gorram shiny

BUCKTHORN42

Friday, October 7, 2005 3:39 PM

One thing I liked about Wash's death:

When Book died, it was sort of "meh". I mean, not that I cheered or anything, but I think we'll agree that Book wasn't as much of a core portion of the crew as Wash was. Book was sort of inconvenient to have around ("Aeriel") and although we did get glimpses into his life ("OiS") he was unfortunately more secondary.

When Wash died, I suddenly had the feeling that all bets were off. This isn't a redshirt or a secondary character, this is someone that many fans loved and even identified with. When the started with the Reavers, you didn't know if anyone was safe. Several people on LJ were ocnvinced at that point that Joss was going to kill off the entire crew, or at least a good portion of it. That made for HUGE tension during that entire sequence, and if you hadn't seen the image of River standing after defeating the reavers (which I understand was out there on the net in places), you couldn't be 100% sure she was going to make it either.

Yes, it hurts to have Wash dead and it's hard to imagine Serenity without him. But Joss said that the character's lives were going to be changed after this movie, and I think that was very well demonstrated.

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What else can I say? ***IMMENSE spoiler warning***

What else can I say? IMMENSE spoiler warning