Discussion for the subject: What happened to my show, 'cause Serenity wasn't it?!

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 03:51
VIEWED: 33215
PAGE 7 of 11

Ach, lordy, more lecturing from my favorite Firefly authority! Where do you get off, GGreen?

You're telling me that I'm wrong about interpretive matters, like there's some objective measure of these things. Sure, Jayne is of course, obviously, the least loyal of Mal's crew. He might die for Mal, he might not, depending on circumstances. And Kaylee wouldn't kill for Mal, is all. You think if the feds got her, she'd rat out on him to save her skin? Maybe so, she's just a frail falible human being like all of us, but to bring us back to the original point, how the heck is constantly brow-beating the entire crew gonna keep these two "loose cannons" in line?

Please, if you're gonna write any more of these rants, GGreen, could you cut back on the smarmy innuendo and sarcasm? Damn! You are constantly, I would say willfully, misunderstanding me for effect here.

Look, I didn't buy Simon's punching the captain in the specific circumstances in the BDM. You refute me by showing that Simon punches people all the time. Not the point. Judging from what I'd seen in Objects in Space, it seemed natural that River would take her place as a member of the crew now. I thought the stage was set for Simon to grow up a little teesny bit. I didn't think it struck the right chord, so early in the BDM's running time. You disagree, that's fine.

G, are you new to this forum? I don't remember your handle. Bottom line, your attacks here are just uncool. I'm serious. I don't think Simon's confession to Kaylee is in any way the equivolent of the sailor kissing the blonde in Times Square. Simon's a little more circumspect than that. But it's just my opinion, dude, you don't have to agree with me.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Never fear, ReallyKaylee, I want a sequel as badly as anyone here and I've got folks lined up to keep whatever momentum I can going through the second weekend! It's a good movie, just not as good as I was hoping it would be.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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*heart*
ok hkcav! gotta keep momentum!

shakespeare: more words than God.

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I want to preface this by saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I realize we all have very different tastes.

That being said I think a lot of you are too hung up on what happened in the series. The movie is a stand alone. Joss made this movie so that non-fans can enjoy it along with the fans. I think some of the things we saw in the series were changed by Joss to make the movie more accessible to non-fans. The way I saw the opening with Simon breaking River out is that Joss changed it from the series. Simon did break River out. He didn't hire someone to do it for him, he just hired someone to pick them both up (literally). Joss could not have put in a re-cap of what actually happened in the series, it would have taken up too much time and it would have bogged down the movie before it was even started.

If you people would stop analyzing every detail to see if it meshes with the series you would probably enjoy the movie a whole lot more. And this notion that Joss was lazy and fell back into Buffy Mode is ridiculous. For one thing on Buffy Joss planned the arcs out seasons in advance. He didn't just come up with plots, and arcs, and villains on the fly. He knew what he wanted down to the most meticulous detail. Yes Joss knows what he is doing. Yes Joss knows how to keep the fans interested. But another thing Joss knows how to do is plan the plot way ahead of time. To suggest that Joss just threw out some fan fiction is insulting, not to me but to Joss. This man loved these characters and this story a hell of a lot more than any of us. He didn't have to shop this story around, he didn't have to bust his ass writing and directing this script. He's a creator. He could have just moved on. In case you haven't noticed he has not one but two movie projects in the works and neither one of them has anything to do with firefly.

I'm not telling any of you to not speak your mind if you have an opinion that differs with mine. But if you love firefly as much as you say you do, then what good does rampant criticism do our cause to get a sequel made. I for one loved the movie and would love to see one or two more. Since all of the exposition is out of the way, the second would almost certainly be better than the first because he would have more time to tell the story the way he wants to tell it. I read somewhere in this thread someones idea for how the scenes leading up to and including book's last scene should have been. He/she said it would have only added 5 minutes to the movie. Five minutes can be a lifetime when it comes to editing a movie, especially a studio movie.

Just try to see how lucky we are. We have the series and the movie and hopefully one or two more movies on the way. Try not to get too hung up on what happened in the series. The movie is not perfect, but very, very, very few are perfect. Myself, I enjoyed the hell out of it, and I can't wait to go see it a second time this weekend. In a perfect world fox never would have canned the show prematurely and we would have been able to see Joss's vision unfold before our eyes for several years. But that didn't happen and I for one am very thankful for what we have and I really hope we get to see a sequel.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincdc:

Just try to see how lucky we are. We have the series and the movie and hopefully one or two more movies on the way. Try not to get too hung up on what happened in the series. The movie is not perfect, but very, very, very few are perfect. Myself, I enjoyed the hell out of it, and I can't wait to go see it a second time this weekend.

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Absolutly, totally agree with you captaincdc!
And I think it was made as good as Joss could have made it under the circumstances. And it was made better than ANYONE ELSE could have made it.
And for one moment, forget the non-fans- don't see Serenity for it's lack of fully explored characterization, that would be like saying there wasn't enough dialogue in the last ten minutes of 'War Stories' or something. Firefly + Serenity = a whole story. We know and love them and see our BDH's through to the end of an amazingly well crafted tale. AND she's still flying.
THAT'S enough for me.

Chrisisall, un-disappointed and incredibly thankful

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There has been a lot of talk about how Joss wanted Firefly to be darker and that if the series had of continued, much the same as what happened in the movie would've happened in the series.

First off, how do we know that? I am actually very curious to know when that little tidbit of information was passed on.

Secondly, Yes I'll concede that his original vision was darker. I saw the extras on the DVDs. But he didn't get to do it his way, did he? The much maligned FOX tempered his vision and he in turn tempered theirs. The result was a most excellent...dare I say AWESOME show.

We can all agree on that right?

So, where were people wrong in expecting more of the same?

It wasn't what I expected and to tell the truth, I was put off by that a bit. BUT that's not to say there weren't good parts to the movie, and I am DEFINITELY not turning in my coat.

Everyone is allowed to like or dislike a movie, simple as that. I personally hope more like it than those what don't.

So, here's to the new recruits and the tried and true in both their elation and disappointment. Browncoats stand side by side. It just ain't polite to shoot one of your own. The colour of your coat binds us together regardless of our differences of opinion.


Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincdc:
...I think a lot of you are too hung up on what happened in the series. The movie is a stand alone. Joss made this movie so that non-fans can enjoy it along with the fans. I think some of the things we saw in the series were changed by Joss to make the movie more accessible to non-fans.

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Oh, if only. I've been reading this kind of justification for Joss's changes and though they're sensible in principle, I really don't think Joss pulled it off.

First of all, I don't think Serenity is a "stand alone." I've read review after review by non-Firefly fans saying it was fun, better than the usual dreck, good popcorn fair, but nothing too amazing, nothing they'll be falling in love with any time soon. I would have been fascinated by a truly stand alone movie in the Firefly universe.

Imagine if Alien were based on a t.v. series with milk blooded androids and a vast conspiracy by the human government to farm the aliens--kinda I, Robot meats the X-Files. And then the movie gets made and in the first twenty minutes what we get is an extensive rehash of the series, full of cute banter between Yaphet Kotto and Sigorney Weaver, Ash being programmed by an evil government, essencially giving all the goodies and all the best plot twists away and then proceeding with the plot. The movie would have been just as scary, but the joy of discovery would have been lost. Audiences like that sense of experiencing something for the first time; they're not so crazy about having to be brought up to speed so they can tag along but never quite catch up with a lot of rabid fans.

I really think Joss could have dispensed with the first twenty minutes entirely and let the backstory unfold with the reaver-centered plot as needed. Think of it. Establish that River is a troubled girl with an over protective brother and then have her go berzerk in that bar. Begin the movie the way they did Our Mrs. Reynolds, establish the robin hood thing and show us some space settlers, the intriguing mix of ultra-high and low tech; give us a full dose of the fascinating charm of the Firefly 'verse, its people and its heroes and then sic the reavers on 'em. Fan's would be nothing but gleeful that they already knew the secret and non-fans would have a proper movie experience. You wanna make a stand alone movie, first trust that it can stand on its own.

I really think the central error in judgement here, was that Joss even tried to please the fans at all, really. Seriously, we fans would be pleased just to have the movie made. More than anything else, we fans want the franchize to succeed. Period.

The other implication of this kind of justification is that Joss needed to "dumb down" the show for general audiences, to make it more "accessible." Make it more jokey and never ever let up on the action. You know, like a two hour long trailer! Grrrr. Arrrgh.

In a word, no. That kind of talk in the face of the phenomenal success of the real Firefly makes me just want to cry. Firefly was something no one had seen before, and a whole lot of people liked it so gorram much, it got made into a movie in spite of being cancelled. Trust that. Trust that there's an actual audience for Firefly just waiting to find out what all the fuss is about. The recent success of Batman Begins revitalized a franchize that was virtually dead in the water and did it with very mature themes, extensive character developement, one hella dark leading man and still worked in the wizbang.

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Joss could not have put in a re-cap of what actually happened in the series, it would have taken up too much time and it would have bogged down the movie before it was even started.

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I agree, the whole thing is unnecessary. Leave the backstory untold, except where it arises out of the main plot and let people buy the DVD if they really want to know the whole story.

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I'm not telling any of you to not speak your mind if you have an opinion that differs with mine. But if you love firefly as much as you

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