Post Serenity: Is the Fireflyverse even remotely pro-government anymore?*warning: spoilers*
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2005 06:58
VIEWED: 10014
PAGE 2 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Chris, I suspect the large numbers of citizens who are p/o'ed at our government might just take a fancy to the movie, which ends up doing us all a lot of good.
I agree. But then I see the characters as almost uniformly conservative (at least the conservatives minues the religeous right) as are the movies themes and messages. Sure there's a mix of liberalism for flavor, but the lets face it, the crew of Serenity would have a lot more in common with Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush then with LBJ, Jimmy Carter, or any Democratic Senator/Presidential candidate.
Now Clinton is an interesting character. Mal would have hated him, because Clinton would have been a valued client for Inara. I think they would have otherwise liked him until he got out of office and they found out his lax (or lack thereof) policies had helped empower the Reavers...er... terrorists.
Perhaps Firefly/Serenity is actually pro-ditatorship. Mal runs the ship. One man, one voice, one opinion. Follow him or get the hell off. Now he's not all bad, but the the rules stay the same, its Mal who changes. Perhaps his ultimate problem with the Alliance is that he's not running the show...
H
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While Serenity ahs been called a Libretarian Western in Space... it's hardly Joss' view of the world.
The characters are misfits... former soldiers on the losing side (Mal, Zoe), Mercenary outlaw (Jayne--who at first was the only real 'bad guy' on the crew,,, that changed in teh film), Simon & River (fugitives, right or wrong from the authorities), Kaylee (runaway), Inara (space hooker)Wash (anyone else wonder about Wash's drug habit re: teh plastic dinosaurs?)and finally Book (the shepard who shoots people.
Noone on board Serenity, except maybe River and Kaylee are 'innocent.' River isn't because she's been made into a killer by the blue hands...
It's an exciting character study.. the characters make the show. If the characters always made the 'right' decisions it wouldn't make for good drama. Setting the universe/government slightly on it's end (take what you know and turn it up to eleven) makes for a good backdrop for these folk to interact.
Any political party could take what they LIKE about Serenity/Firefly and say 'this is ours' and they are likely all equally wrong... except maybe the Libretarians... Mal seems like a Libretarian to me. Joss wouldn't like him. Fair enough, we can pretty much say Mal isn't a Liberal.
"Guess you broke into the wrong rec room."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
So what if the government holds absolute control over its people, so long as the people are well provided for and blissfully ignorant of how little freedom is left when the government is done providing. And isn’t in the greater good to maintain this peaceful and providing relationship at any cost? This is, I think, what the Alliance represents. Much of the dialogue from the “Operative” was very revealing of this kind of thinking or “belief.”
You seem to be suggesting that the Alliance is a Socialist totalitarian government. This doesn't fit the facts, as far as I can see, for various reasons. The Alliance doesn't seem to provide much of anything as a right, at least there’s no evidence to suggest that they do. Not to drag us too far off topic but rightwing societies/governments also have these failings. America meddles in others affairs all the time, and not always for the better...
My point is, and I'm prepared for the fact that I didn't make it well, that the alliance could be either way, liberal or conservative, especially given the fact that its based on the governments of China and America, obviously very leftwing and very rightwing societies respectively.
However your point regarding utopia is well founded, and on the whole I agree.
I remember reading a book which was an abstraction of current trends into the future. It's actually set in 2040, if I remember correctly, and was written between the late 1970's and early 1980's. The amazing thing is how much closer we seem to have moved to the society in the book from the one we were in when the book was written.
But I digress. The reason I bring this up is that the Miranda thing reminds me of a passage from the book.
One of the main characters is visiting America, and is very impressed by his greeting from his host companies rep's. He notices these cone-shaped structures...
Quick transcript slightly abridged:
As they drove slowly through the thourghfares towards the Beautiflora headquarters Bottomley noticed a number of cone-shaped structures...
"There's quite a story behind those, sir," the aide said. "It goes back a couple of years. We were getting an abnormally high increase in the number of riots...
Bottomley nodded. "Yes I do remember it being in the news for sometime but it died down didn't it?"
"Yes sir, exactly, and it's due to those cones. As you know riots are inevitable in a highly civilised society and we've had our fair share, but two years ago things were getting out of hand. Then some scientist came up with this new tranquilliser... it's tasteless and colourless. Those cones can pump it out in great quantities...
"is that what they are doing now then?...
The aide grinned. "No sir, that's only half of it. At the moment they are doing just the opposite, pumping out a very mild form of stimulant... Too much stimulant and people go berserk and riot. But a subtle constant stream into the atmosphere and you send sales figures rocketing...
Its then explained to him that the rep's he saw used a similar system, which is why he was so impressed...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:Mal does what needs to get done, which takes him out of contempory politics as we know it, left or right.
Originally posted by DrRob:
Mal seems like a Libretarian to me. Joss wouldn't like him. Fair enough, we can pretty much say Mal isn't a Liberal.
Chrisisall, first member of the 'Get It Done' party
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HERO said,
"But then I see the characters as almost uniformly conservative (at least the conservatives minues the religeous right) as are the movies themes and messages. Sure there's a mix of liberalism for flavor, but the lets face it, the crew of Serenity would have a lot more in common with Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush then with LBJ, Jimmy Carter, or any Democratic Senator/Presidential candidate."
I agree. Good points, in all of your post.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Now Clinton is an interesting character. Mal would have hated him, because Clinton would have been a valued client for Inara. I think they would have otherwise liked him until he got out of office and they found out his lax (or lack thereof) policies had helped empower the Reavers...er... terrorists.
But of course its the heavy handed policies on Miranda that went beforehand that created the Reavers in the first place...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:
Mal does what needs to get done, which takes him out of contempory politics as we know it, left or right.]...
This is one of the few 'western' themes left in Serenity... and one of the things I like the most about the series and characters.
"Guess you broke into the wrong rec room."
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Quote:I don’t know what facts you’re referring to. I’ve seen or read most of the information available on Firefly and I have yet to see many explicit examples of the Alliances’ policies on social or fiscal issues. So I don’t know how one can define it explicitly as sitting on one side of the fence or the other. My guess is that Joss made the Alliance sufficiently vague so that the audience can imprint whatever particular political side they don’t like onto it. My post does not attempt to define the Alliance as a socialist totalitarian government. But I did give a few examples of the more gruesome totalitarian philosophies that have existed in history (Marxism, Nazism and Stalinism) to illustrate how totalitarianism is related to a utopian idealism. I think it is quite clear that the danger of a government’s fanatical devotion to a utopian future was a principle theme in Serenity. That most of the historical examples of such totalitarian regimes are generally very Left-wing is something that shouldn’t be lost. You make this comment about America as having the same failings as if there were some moral equivalence between the US and Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, and somehow I left them out. Well, I didn’t mention the US in my post because the US is not a totalitarian regime and doesn’t need to be mentioned in the same breath with philosophies that seek to implement dictatorships in furtherance of world domination and genocide.
Originally posted by citizen:
You seem to be suggesting that the Alliance is a Socialist totalitarian government. This doesn't fit the facts, as far as I can see, for various reasons. The Alliance doesn't seem to provide much of anything as a right, at least there’s no evidence to suggest that they do. Not to drag us too far off topic but rightwing societies/governments also have these failings. America meddles in others affairs all the time, and not always for the better...
I don’t know what motivations Joss had in choosing the US and China as the basis of the future interplanetary government, but my guess is that it probably had more to do with simple extrapolation then ideology. First of all, the Alliance has remained extremely androgynous, so to speak. I don’t think it is very clear where it stands in relation to current politics/economics; it could go either way. But there is also the case that the US and China are seen as powerful and growing world influences today. It’s not difficult to believe that the choice of Sino-American Alliances was made purely for that reason.
I agree with Hero that most of the characters and stories tend to be following Conservative lines. Joss seems to have written the story and the characters to reflect his vision of “anti-heroes (heroines),” the darker side of the hero, so to speak. Joss being a rather Left-wing dude has constructed his vision of the anti-hero as being a very Conservative minded (politically), short-tempered and even militant rogue. My guess is that I don’t see Firefly from the same perspective as Joss. I’m not picking up on the same distasteful vibe that Joss believes he has written into Mal, because I see Mal as being a very likeable guy. Someone I might could possibly get along with, in fact. A person whom I may shares many of the same ideals with. I think in attempting to create what Joss, perhaps, believes is the ultimate unsympathetic hero, he has effectively created what I would see as a genuine hero.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:Not so fast. Contemporary politics is made up of much more than just left and right. Libertarianism, for the record, is neither left nor right.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Mal does what needs to get done, which takes him out of contempory politics as we know it, left or right.
It is not farfetched to see Mal as largely libertarian. Joss is a liberal. Mal's libertarian streaks are totally consistent with Joss' comment that he and Mal wouldn't get along.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Quote:I read an interview in which Joss said something about picking Chinese as the language to swear in because his wife speaks Chinese. Personally, he liked Japanese better. Maybe this had some influence too.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don’t know what motivations Joss had in choosing the US and China as the basis of the future interplanetary government...
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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