Chrisisall, come save me! Let's talk Plot Holes.
POSTED BY: mima
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 5, 2005 16:14
VIEWED: 14937
PAGE 4 of 5
My take on 11. (Reaver insanity. if you don't want to scroll up and see what 11 was.)
The recording said that in a percentage of the population, the opposite from what killed the rest of the population took place. She goes on to talk about rage, but think about what killed the people of Miranda: It was more than passivity. It was complete apathy and like of drive to even eat.
Reavers aren't just mindless zombies bitten by rage-inbfected monkeys. The Reavers still remember being nice cuddly people, but can't stop their own rage inspired actions, so they hate themselves as much as others. That begins to explain the self mutilation. I also see the Reavers as not only consumed by rage but consumed by uncontrollable OCD. Unlike the Mirandans who couldn't do anything, they literally cannot stop doing things. They decorate their ships; they tinker with them even when they become unsafe; they mutilate themselves out of unbearable self hatred and they make really creative weapons. They're intelligent, controlled insanity with a death wish that is just a little smaller than their wish to kill.
To sum it up; I don't see the Reavers as uncontrolled insanity. They're way scarier than that.
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Yeah, the message thing bothered me too until I got to thinking about it. With Mr. Universe already in the hands of the Operative, no way does that message get out to the rest of the galaxy if it's taped and then rebroadcast. The only way is to get the Operative away from Mr. Universe. And Mal knows the Operative is there, so he isn't going to send the message until the coast is clear.
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Minor annoyances:
1. River goes back outside to get the med kit, close the door and save the day. And YET: no one uses the med kit. They all lay there, gasping for breath and gripping weapons... in fact they "lay down" that's just not cool. Jayne and Zoe are wounded, but are still ambulatory enough to keep pointing guns here and there. Simon is gut shot, and I'll allow the fact that he's not a 'tough guy' like Jayne and Zoe. Zoe has patched a bullet hole or two, as has Jayne. Kaylee is paralyzed and dying (that's why we got the med kit right?) Simon even says WHAT TO DO for Kaylee before he passes out... and what the heck is Inara doing during all this? Thats' a 'plot hole' that seems unforgivable in the 'love saves all/leave no one behind' message. I understand killing Wash to make us beleive everyone is now in danger (except Mal really) I thought for SURE Kaylee was gonna die.
2. Reavers have guns/darts etc right up until River goes outside. No one shoots at her.
3. Timeline for Simon?River: face it a lot of folks seeing the film never saw Firefly.. 'retelling' her escape is no big deal. Simon and Mal have traded fists before. The Safety word? A Plot Device, a small deus ex machina (otherwise he could have used it in OIS) again, a benefit for folks who never saw Firefly.
4. Jayne goes to kill River? Um RIVER CAN KILL HIM WITH HER BRAIN. Remember? That's one... well I didn't like that one at ALL. Maybe River 'makes' Jayne open the door--that would be better than Jayne forgetting he's afraid of the 90 pound girl that can kick his ass, or read his mind and KNOW what he's about to do.
5. The total lack of "hands of blue" guys... they never caught up with the crew in the show, Jubal Early wasn't one of them, The Operative is supposed to be worse than both. To a point, he is. But he's not inside your head making your brains explode scary. Unless the hands of blue guys did in the contacts the Operative couldn't reach. Even if it was just 'for the fans' if the "Director/Doctor" in the first part of the film done in by the Operative was wearing blue gloves you'd 'get' that bluegloves/blue sun were done trying to clean up the mess.
6. Where's the GORRAM song?
I still liked the movie a lot, in some ways I wish I hadn't seen the series first--it would have changed my expectations greatly.
"Guess you broke into the wrong rec room."
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What's is this talk about firing a crossbow? I watched Inara carry a long package that easily would've held an unstrung bow. And she is clearly firing a bow and NOT a crossbow. If you mean the difference between a simple bow versus a compound bow (i.e. has pullies or something otherwise to reduce the amount of force needed to draw back the bow) then that would only be relevant to scenes that have been cut that may have shown conflicting bows (unknown to me maybe they don't at this point in my view). I have used all manner of archaic missile weapons and what *I* saw her use in the battle with the Reavers was most certainly a bow and NOT a crossbow.
Browncoat Monk
Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...
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5. The total lack of "hands of blue" guys...
They were explained away rather poorly in the comic book. I mean the comic was pretty weak in that regard--they have them trapped in the garbage compartment while floating in space, but they don't space them?!? Does Book 'kill' them? The crew gets away and no mention of what they did--which would've been to KILL THEM by spacing them--just ask the captain his opinion! I do think the Operative is just as scary as he is meant to be--calm confident capable cold-blooded zealotry is pretty scary when you think about.
Browncoat Monk
Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...
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Shiny!! Thanks InlovewithMal... I missed that
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You guys are the best. thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. I went insane not being able to get on the boards the last 3 days so i've been talking along the same lines over at browncoats. here's somethings i've picked up that are either new, or in disagreement to what you all have said.
3. the lack of broadcast from miranda- my favorite explanation is the ion cloud. forgot about that.
5. people keep saying the operative had dislocated shoulders. he clearly went utterly whole body limp, and was having trouble breathing/swallowing. i'm thinking back, but the alliance alpha ship would heal him, so i'm okay with that.
6. love the samurai description. it still just seems too much of a turn around/deus ex machina. but i'm gettin okay with it.
7. i had forgotten they all left the ship in HoG, thanks. and reavers were not on planet.
9. i was referring to the fact that she doesn't question mal like that. but someone pointed out how she waited until they were alone, which i liked.
10. i'll have to freeze frame that when i get the dvd. and btw joss is all "no directors cut. the movie is it" which i think sucks the big tuna.
11. reaver society is being made clear to me.
14. someone told me river walks in to get her cut of the job, as she was a full participant in this one. they said it was in the book.
16. jayne still thought she was in handcuffs, and someone says he's drunk ( he is pictured taking a swig of courage).
17. sorry this is still a plot hole for me. the little shuttle would have landed somewhere (CRASH) and he would have walked to a door, SEEN the reavers, and had to come in an alternative way. him knowing the facility layout down to the duct work is just OTT.
19. people are saying it's not because he knew too much, but that he clearly says in the film it was because he endangered the alliance through his hubris. the operative finds his negligence utterly unacceptable.
21. didn't see kaylee sobbing. didn't see river crying. and in the VC it says the rocket explodes into beautiful fireworks. was robbed of that moment too. joss knows grief. joss put the funeral in there to acknowledge the grief. of all the other "plot holes" i'm picking on, none of them are essential to losing enjoyment of the show, except for this emotional inconsistency. saying the new non-fans didn't need to see it is false too. he made wash just as beloved in the previous hour and half as he was to us. non fans were just as appalled as us, because everyone knows the one-buddy-dies rule.
22. there's clearly scenes where the original bow and arrow aren't cgi'd to match the close up scenes of her compound crossbow.
a new one: how did untechnical mal know how to upload the file (not just play it, but upload it to play all) at MU's backup machine. someone told me he took av club in high school. :P loved it.
another new one, and this relates to the above complaint about how no one went to help river.
kaylee had rigged the doors to fail to open again once they closed. they also had virtually no ammo left. the big plot hole others pointed out is how do the blast doors open on river's hero moment as she stands majestically (deservedly so) among piles of bodies? she isn't close enough to fuss with the wires... my idea was the alliance busting through the back wall actually broadcast an override all doors command from their ship.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrRob:
Minor annoyances:
1. River goes back outside to get the med kit, close the door and save the day. And YET: no one uses the med kit.
the med kit is outside, with the reavers. the doors were rigged to lock by kaylee.
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2. Reavers have guns/darts etc right up until River goes outside. No one shoots at her.
they ran out? just like zoe and jayne.
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4. Jayne goes to kill River?
well i wasn't surprised he went, just that he thought he could get away with it. someone tells me he's drunk, and remember, he's thinking she's in handcuffs.
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5. The total lack of "hands of blue" guys...
joss is under no obligation to use all of the many plot arcs he didn't get to in the series. mal to book: sometime you have to tell me about... book to mal: no i don't
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6. Where's the GORRAM song?
it killed me that you said this. after all joss did to get it added for us. it was at the end of the credits, and specifically added just about a month before release due to fan requests. copyright wise, it wasn't the exact song, but it was the melody, in instrumental twangy guitar.
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Nobody has mentioned it(probably because its not really a plot hole), but what do you all make of Mal getting impaled on the Operative's sword and being able to continue fighting (and living)?
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Lots of neat stuff here. I think I’ll pick out what I want to talk about, though it’s mostly already been covered:
“Why didn’t they just send the message to Mr. Universe?”
They don’t send the message because they know the Alliance is there. And Mr. Universe (who is shown to be on Mal’s side later with the lovebot recording) never even asks them to send it to him--so the crew doesn’t have to come up with some awkward explanation for why they can’t send it, just to keep the Operative from knowing they’re onto his trap. And that’s why they then get the Reavers to chase after them, because they know the Operative will be there (and by this point it makes sense for him to be going for the overkill, calling in every ship in the quadrant--Mal’s slipped past him too many times).
“Why does the Operative change his mind so quickly?”
Well, others have gone into his honor code above, but they haven’t talked about his self loathing. “I’m a monster” he says to Mal, “I know what I do is evil, but it is necessary.” He is probably more tainted than the people he hunts, but the only thing that justifies his actions is his belief in this great ideal. He performed great evil in the name of a “better world,” and the evidence on the recording invalidates everything he’s done. It destroys the careful moral structure that allows him to commit evil in the name of good. He now sees that all the moral sacrifices he made were for nothing. So, not only would he feel it the honorable thing to help Mal, he’d be deeply traumatized and f**king pissed off at the Parliament for lying to him, for letting him become this monster in the name of a lie. And that seems plausible to me.
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