Chrisisall, come save me! Let's talk Plot Holes.
POSTED BY: mima
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 5, 2005 16:14
VIEWED: 14937
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Disclaimer: I loved the movie. Not feeling happy fan feelings, as i'm in heavy grief over wash, but the following pesky details keep coming around in my mind because i'm detailed oriented, and not without a brain even this deep in fandom. These are not in any order of irritation or chronology.
DUH! spoilers! I mean, the movie's out people, don't come to these boards if you haven't seen it by now. it's OUT, it's all fair game. 
1. The sound in space- already heard people moaning about it. I'll take care of this one:
it was upper atmo of a planet.
2. Another I already heard and disagreed with is the operative shooting mal in the back. it was obviously some sort of electricity stun gun, not a bullet gun.
3. why didn't they just broadcast the found miranda recording from miranda?
4. when they landed on mr. universe's planet (sorry didn't catch the name), the ship was TOAST. even with a beautifully equipped facility undamaged by the vengeful alliance, i'm thinking the reaver's ship was blocking them, and there was no planetside way to get those boosters reattached.
5. the operative's cracked back. ummm, maybe his guys had a super duper medical lab on the ship they landed with? mal said something to the effect that the operative helped with the healing of his crew at the end, but a cracked back, especially with mal's lack of finesse? and the operative had body armor on? relatively stiff?
6. would a True Believer, as inara put it, really go so far as to help them? i believed the sort of lame deus ex machina "free from kill" but to then actually stay and help patch them, and possibly the ship?
7. on miranda, why didn't someone stay with serenity.
8. on miranda, why didn't they slap their helmets back on as soon as they id'd the possibility of poison.
9. zoe's questioning of mal after the mule chase.
i was like "whaaaaat?"
10. when serenity came to rest at mr. universe's hangar, she was cockeyed and pointing up, with a small clearance between the cockpit and the hangar roof. when the reavers came in after them, they sat down right in front of them right? (a little foggy on the action sequence there) but still, the cockpit was waaaay up there. how did the reaver harpoons come *down* through the cockpit to get wash? if they were firing harpoons to anchor the ship, they would have targeted the belly that was showing like a dying creature. the reavers had already been set up to avoid distance kills. i don't think they would have decimated the cockpit like that in the understanding there would be key people there they would probably want revenge on.
11. despite everything about the craziness of the reavers, they supposedly still have the ability to reason and plan, focus and perform. they even coordinate a rough defense of "their" space, with security lights and such.
12. the operative would not leave mr. universe alive. he would not have been able to live long enough for that message.
13. mr. universe clearly lived on some sort of a compound, richly equipped. where are all the people? why was the compound intact after the operative left it? as in, at haven, everything was destroyed.
14. why did river walk into the same bar as mal when they seemed to be taking their leave at the ship? where was simon?
15. did mal really leave all his money in the bar? i thought it was just their payment, but then they were demanding more, and it seemed they would only have done that if they were in a position to get it right then.
16. what was jayne's intent when he went into the area with river? where were her handcuffs?
17. how was the operative able to control his little escape pod with enough accuracy to get back to mr. universe's home. and enter so easily/sneakily into an unknown building. seems even if he managed to land nearby, he would have walked up to an entrance of some sort. it would have taken considerable time to discover the tried and true "heating duct" entrance.
18. i'm assuming the memory that river says "isn't hers" was the lady i
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3. They said they didn't have enough 'something' (don't recall the exage verbage) to broadcast it from there and more importantly Mr. Universe had enough power to broadcast to everywhere in the system at the same time.
4. That was no small facility and apparently ships are made very interchangable/juryriggable/adaptable (think of the ~7+ year old fleet of the Reavers--the things still fly and those guys don't look like the most facidious of engineers).
5. I thought he dislocated both shoulders (and probably tore the rotator cuffs) of the operative. It fits visually and practically (too hard to put one shoulder back if both are out no matter how tough you are).
6. True believer in the better world for humanity. Well that video was the very evidence that he was actually working against that better world while Malcolm and crew were doing the right thing.
8. The poison had been diluted/absorbed/disappated from the city's vents (and not being continually produced and added) by the time they arrived.
9. Moral questioning after near death experience. Not unheard off.
10. Did seem a little strange to me too.
11. I'm thinking that was more of an ad-hoc inspection. These people are beyond normal levels of craziness--they are essentially alien at this point.
12. I disagree here. He just doesn't think anything of Mr. Universe. Stabs him a is done with him. Same M.O. as earlier with the laboratory researcher.
15. After all that violence the twins probably felt that they'll work on getting that 15% another time. By volume that wasn't all of the money they got earlier.
20. Damn good question.
21. They were already experiencing serious levels of shock and fatigue after seeing women and children killed (and Book) because of them. In addition to nearly getting blasted by both the Reaver fleet and the Alliance fleet. Probably not getting much sleep for the previous few days also. That will dull your emotional response for sure.
23. No, they always chase. The chasers got killed. The others were um 'busy.'
25. I wondered about that too.
Browncoat Monk
Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...
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Hello,
The biggest plot hole of the movie is indeed in regards to the message that they want Mr. Universe to upload to the 'verse.
You see, they are in live, real-time communication with Mr. Universe. They see him on the screen in Serenity. They talk to him. How hard is it to play the clip for him, have him tape it, and then disseminate it through the system? Why, when they are already chatting live, do they need to physically deliver the tape?
It's purely so that the trap of the Operative can be sprung, and the counter-trap of the Reavers can be sprung, and a healthy confrontation can ensue.
One other thing that bothered me...
They mount this big gun on Serenity. Then they fly into Reaver territory for the first time. You can see on the external shot that there is a space-suit outside the ship. Someone is manning the gun.
Then they switch to an interior shot. Everyone is looking out at the Reavers surrounding them, looking tense and afraid. But... Everyone who could possibly be manning that gun is in the cockpit.
Oops. :-)
Still, a great film, in my opinion.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
DUH! spoilers! I mean, the movie's out people, don't come to these boards if you haven't seen it by now. it's OUT, it's all fair game.
Word of caution, its out in America, not the rest of the world...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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The gun was manned with a dead corpse in a suit. As the form is seen hanging half off as if he was lifeless. When they come back through it looks like Jayne was in that same hanging over orientation right before he engages.
Browncoat Monk
Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...
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The biggest thing that had me scratching my head was why the operative called in every ship he could to handle one little firefly class ship that has no weapons. It just really seemed like a HUGE plot hammer so they could get the cool scenes with the reaver ships attacking.
Also, space is three dimensional. There should be no reason why they would have to fly through all the reaver ships to get to Miranda. Just fly around them, or above them, or below them. It might take a little more time, but considering the alternative, ANY captain would've done it.
..Kevin
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Speaking of continuity, there is another goof.
When Book gets shot, and dies/is dying, he reaches up and places his bloodied left hand on Mal's cheek. Book's hand falls off, and then there is a shot of Mal. Face ALL CLEAN. Hmm. Maybe the blood was dry.
Nope. Next shot we see Mal talking to The Operative, with a blood stain on his cheek.
Heehee..
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Quote:
Originally posted by fwivot:
Also, space is three dimensional. There should be no reason why they would have to fly through all the reaver ships to get to Miranda. Just fly around them, or above them, or below them. It might take a little more time, but considering the alternative, ANY captain would've done it.
If they flew around, it could take too long. Also, any Reaver ship that spotted them would immediately know they were lunch instead of friends. So going through the middle in disguise is both quicker and less dangerous... kinda. Heh.
"My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training."
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..."
I know the secret.
http://www.theshadowdepository.co.uk/index.htm
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I have the book "Serenity: The Official Visual Companion", which includes the shooting script (almost exactly the same as the final edit). It answers many of these questions.
Here are a few that others haven't covered (warning: I don't have my copy here right now, so this is from memory)...
2. Yes, a stun gun. We see the Operative take it from one of the spaceship crewmen just before he skips out in his escape pod.
5. The script states that we hear the Operative's arms breaking. I like the dislocated shoulder idea, though.
7. Well, there was this little problem of the Reavers attacking.
8. Kinda late at that point. It would have been smarter to stay suited up until they eliminated various other possibilites, such as a disease, but hey, the BDH's aren't always the brightest of bulbs. And they hadn't found any bodies yet.
10. The script describes the Reaver ships as being airborne and outside the hangar at that stage. I won't speculate on the Reavers' motivations.
11. The Reavers are ultra-aggressive, but not totally insane.
14. No answer in the script. Speculation: Simon was negotiating with some spaceship captain for passage; River wandered off in her usual spooky way and was psychically drawn to her friends.
15. I interpret this as the 25% they'd previously agreed on. The demand for 40% would be along the lines of, "Fork over another 15% if you ever want us to give you another job." Serenity wasn't all that far away.
16. Jayne was going to "take her for a ride", but exactly what he had in mind is never stated explicitly. Knowing Jayne...
As to the handcuffs, the script includes an extra scene that didn't make the final edit. River climbs to the top of the storeroom, tears a wire cage loose from the light, and uses it to pick the lock. This occurs just before Jayne comes in, which is why she's up there at that time. Maybe we'll see that on the Director's Cut DVD.
18. That's one I'd like to know too. I'm going to speculate and say that it didn't entirely "cure" her (after all, she's still psychic) but that it lightened her burden a lot, which gave her the feeling of being "all right". By the way, the memory wasn't that of the woman in the holo, since she was killed by Reavers not-soon-enough after the end of the recording. Presumably the information about Miranda was retrieved and known to one of the Parliament big shots that came to see River.
19. Facility's records. Think of the medical records in a doctor's office. And he was killed because he knew too much, same as the way the blue hands guys killed everybody on Ariel who came into contact with River.
20. Good question. For a moment I thought Mal was going to invite the Operative to join the crew. Silly me.
21. I think we may see some repercussions in a sequel. The VC book has a caption on a picture of Tudyk that states he could return in a sequel. No other cast member is so described, and it's not a misdirection since the book includes the whole script. I'm thinking flashback scenes, unless the whole sequel is a prequel.
22. Interestingly, VC includes a production photo of Inara shooting an actual bow and arrow, rather than the high-tech crossbow thingy. The latter was inserted in CGI post-production. Not sure why, but it's kind of interesting.
24. The bigger issue to me is that I'd always thought Simon had hired somebody to get River out, not that he'd gone in himself. He wasn't that sort of swashbuckler back then. OTOH, he's always been willing to do anything for River.
25. Mr. U was already in the Operative's hands at the time of that wave. He was saying whatever the Operative wanted him to.
I'm going to add one issue of my own, though, which has no answer in the script. It was at least a year, probably more llike 18 months, from the time that Simon broke River out until she was outed in the bar on Beaumonde. So what was the Operative doing all that time? How could it have taken so long for him to track her down? I can speculate: maybe he tried to trace Simon through his cont
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Oh, one other thing concerning the grieving. There's a very subtle scene near the end, when Zoe tells Mal the ship is greenlighted to fly. The entire discussion that follows is (on the surface) about Serenity. But it's also equally applicable to Zoe herself. For example, when Mal asks Zoe if she will fly, Zoe answers that she'll hold together. That wasn't just about Serenity.
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