Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out
POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 18 of 23
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CHIWETEL EJIOFOR (THE OPERATIVE) and BOOK are the same character. Oh wait ... nevermind.
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Just saw the movie for the first time. Not the last.
Fireflygal, I'm sorry Joss's dramatic decision has hurt you so badly. Believe me, I understand. Perhaps not entirely agree, but understand.
Okay, where I'm coming from. Months ago I accidentally read a spoiler about Book and Wash's deaths -- some fool on another thread who hadn't properly spoilerized his test. I wanted to burn my eyes out. Knew I couldn't talk to my wife and daughter about it, ever. Tried to convince myself that I'd been punk'ed by some prevaricator. No such luck.
And since my wife had to leave on business for the weekend (no choice, but she'll see it first thing Monday) I can't even talk about it with her now.
My daughter accepted Book's death as a logical necessity (to show The Operative's ruthlessness), but is urinated as hell about Wash. But...
She also feels that it made the crew's peril at the end much more real to her -- she was worried as hell that Simon or Zoe -- or anyone-- was going to die too. A worry that spoiler spared me. Damn its hide.
Y'see, that spoiler affected my enjoyment of the film two ways -- one, it left me waiting for the moment of each death--but worse, it let me relax about the others!.
But... Look,I was worried that Serenity herself was gone forever--that crash landing seemed like damage beyond repair. But credit the late Mr. Universe with keeping a well equipped and supplied facility.
I thought one more friend was gone. Instead, Serenity still flies.
Had the TV show survived, the plot would probably not have reached the BDM's point until late in the second season -- what I've just seen is effectively a three-part season's end cliffhanger and resolution. Had we been able to share that extra one-and-a-half seasons with Book and Wash, perhaps we'd feel better about this. Perhaps not.
I'll miss my good friends, Wash and Book, but there are still more stories to be told in the 'Verse, and I hope Joss has the chance to tell them.
"She's tore up plenty -- but she'll fly true." -- Zoë Warren
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Someone mentioned Trek, and then I realized there's another sci-fi movie where something quite analogous happened, Star Trek II and the death of Spock. As I remember there was a similar outcry from the fans, with numerous complaints. Say what you want, but I think Joss handled these deaths much better.
In Trek you knew it was going to happen. They built it up and made it glaringly obvious. This gets you prepared and lets you have a big emotional response when it happens. I think Serenity's deaths have a less obvious impact when they happen since it is so sudden. You go into shock over it and try to deny it. But, it worms into you and eventually you have to accept it. It has a stronger effect on the tone of the movie and makes it feel like a real event, not a stage production or something tacked onto the movie to have a big finish.
Of course the ultimate silliness of Trek was revealed when Spock came back. If they could have stayed true and left him dead I would have greater respect for that series. We'll see if Joss can stay away from that.
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My husband and I and my 2 boys (ages 12 and 15)went to see the movie yesterday. We are huge Firefly fans and eagerly anticipated this film. The movie delivered in so many ways, with its witty dialogue,great action, and portrayal of the characters. We wished for more screen time for some of the characters, but recognized the limitations of a film to do that.
Book's death was painful and dissapointing. My younger son leaned over and whispered, "But now we'll never know his story". I had to agree, but we were still able to enjoy the rest of the movie, up until Wash's death. After that, we were just shell-shocked.
Wash was my boys' favorite character. He made them laugh, and made them see that you can have value and contribute without necessarily being in the thick of every fight. The ride home in the car was quiet and subdued. When we got home, my 15-year old said, "I feel like we're all grieving". And we were.
I have to agree with the originator of this thread. Both deaths were uneccessary, but Wash's, especially hit hard, because he is the heart and soul and humor of the ship. I also loved his relationship with Zoe, and the fact that they were polar opposites and yet soulmates. I had hoped that they would explore that more. Now, even if they do, in a flashback, or something, it will be bittersweet because we will know that it ended in a horrible way, much too soon.
I agree with another poster who said that he goes to the movies to escape reality, and that if he wants to be sad and depressed, he can just turn on the news. I went to see this movie because I love Firefly, and its characters. ALL of it's characters. I fully expected them all to survive, and I don't think it made a better movie because two of them didn't. It made a sadder movie.
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This is starting to remind me of the outcry that erupted after Joss killed off Tara on BtVS. You didn't like the deaths, big freaking deal. Joss is free to do whatever he wants with his characters, and, like it or not, both Wash and Book's deaths serve a purpose (Wash's shows us just how senseless death can be, and also shows us the depth of his relationship with Zoe [quite frankly, Wash's death is the first time we EVER see a chink in her 'ice-woman' armor], and Book's not only serves the story, but is, IMO, handled very well and is actually a pretty good way for the character to go out).
I wouldn't have killed off Wash or Book were I writing the movie, but then, I'm not Joss, and I accept that he'll give his stories less-than-happy endings if it suits him and/or if he thinks it'll serve the story he wants to tell better (which, IMO, both of these deaths do).
Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You can't take the sky from me
Take me out to the black
Tell 'em I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be
Since I've found Serenity
But you can't take the sky from me
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Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:
Understood on the greater good thing but my deal is that he could do ANYTHING he wanted with those characters and a greater good could have been found with all of them alive.
Not a Buffy fan, so can't compare but I daresay Joss could have set Willow down the magical path without a death. He's a writer, no death, character takes a different path.
I hate to disagree, but no, Joss cannot do "ANYTHING." Sometimes, a writer must go where the characters and plot takes him. Homer could not have saved Hector. If he had, we would not still be reading the Iliad, because the book would have been untrue. Dickens could not have saved Sydney Carton.
The deaths of Book and Wash were sad, but what would have been infinitely worse is if Mal took on the Alliance and the Reavers and didn't lose something in the process. Why? Because it would have been untrue. Because it would have made the movie something different than what it was supposed to be. It would have become just another ridiculous film where the goodguys take on the world and never ever get wounded.
There was a price to pay for this mission. One of the themes of the show has been the costs of doing what is right. Mal has been wrestling with these costs since he brought River and Simon onboard.
It was part of the unnamed assassin's character that he go after Haven. It was part of Book's character that he fight an impossible battle instead of hide. Add the two together, and it would have been untrue for Book to have come out of that alive.
With Wash -- it didn't have to be Wash, but the whole crew is ready to die against the Reavers (and there are like five billion of them). With all we know about the Reavers, wouldn't we find it a touch unconvincing that seven people faced all of them and came out basically without a scratch?
They are important deaths. They are not the deaths we wanted, but there is a certain amount of realism in this show and movie that helped make it great. Not everyone gets a great death. And I would have been sorely disappointed if this movie was just another action film where the heroes do the impossible and everything turns their way.
That's not what I was looking for here.
Thank goodness I didn't get that.
-Paul Lytle
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There's nothing i can say that hasn't already been said.
I was going to mention a few things, but really, there's no need. I loved the movie. Everything about it. It hurt, but i loved it.
Some disagree. That's how it goes, i guess. I can, however, say that i'm somewhat glad to see such wildly varying opinions; if what Joss has done can bring out such emotions, then by my reckoning he's done something right.
EDIT: PLYTLE, you said it wonderfully.
"Oh, I was born, a six-gun in my hand. Behind a gun I'll make my final stand."
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I wish I could've gone into the movie not having seen the series. Got in fresh so to speak. I would've had a detached idea on how good this movie is. And as a newbie, it wouldn't have been a slap in the face that, at least for me and the 5 browncoats with me, detracted from the movie.
As a newbie, they were relatively miinor characters and as a newbie, it would have been just a step in the plot.
Here's the problem. I'm not a newbie. I've invested too much time in these charaters to see them...cast off with such ease.
I felt cheated as did the other 5 with me. Cheated my the manner by which they were dispatched. Cheated by the stories left untold.
I hate to say this but any story from here on will be like driving the car with 3 wheels.A wheel is missing and I can't see it being replaced. The "spare" will never messure up.
Joss pulled a George Lucas.
For the record I did like the movie, but I didn't love it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
Here's the problem. I'm not a newbie. I've invested too much time in these charaters to see them...cast off with such ease.
I felt cheated as did the other 5 with me. Cheated my the manner by which they were dispatched. Cheated by the stories left untold.
Isn't that the point? Death cheats us. We don't get to hear the stories from those of us who have died.
Joss is telling us something about death here. That's a story, he's telling a story that maybe you weren't expecting, but almost definitely don't want to hear. Maybe it doesn't make it your kind of movie, but the more I think about it the greater my appreciation.
People react different ways to loss, anger and rejection are a couple of them. Since Joss wrote the story he's the one responsible for the loss. Don't let yourself think that it's as casual or as cold-hearted as you might think, there's a point beyond the immediate emotional impact.
Personally I'd be delighted if this is the only time any of us have to deal with death, but it won't be.
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