Global warming- past point of no return
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 31, 2008 19:16
VIEWED: 7063
PAGE 6 of 7
Your argument seems to be, we don't know so lets stick our heads in the sand and carry on poisoning the enviroment...
Surely it would be best to assume it is happening? Cleaning up our act is not going to harm us in any great deal if it isn't happening, but not doing anything if it is...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Your argument seems to be, we don't know so lets stick our heads in the sand and carry on poisoning the enviroment...
Surely it would be best to assume it is happening? Cleaning up our act is not going to harm us in any great deal if it isn't happening, but not doing anything if it is...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
Thanks for putting words in my mouth. If you're suggesting we 'clean up our act', fine... I'm all in favor of that. Cleaner burning fuels, recycling, conserving energy,...heck yeah, I do my part there. But if you mean something on the level of, say, the Kyoto Protocol, then I disagree. Even Tony Blair has come to realize what a fiasco that misguided treaty would be.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
I didn't put words in your mouth. I said seems, as in my interpretation, my interpretation of what you were saying was evidently wrong. But I was not putting words in your mouth.
I am curious though, what exactly are your reservations on the Kyoto Protocol, or schemes on that scale?
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Auraptor- I am curious as to what you place in the category of "myth". I'm not sure if you think global wamring is ocurring- you seem to waffle on that point. (At times you say
Quote:At other times you say
You start w/ the premise that global warming is true. I don't
Quote:which presupposes that ti exists. So, can you come down on either side of the question on this one?
Man is not the cause for any global warming.
Also, since I'm trying to figure out what you consider as "fact" and what you consider as "myth" please be so kind as to answer my previous questions:
Are carbon dioxide and methane greenhouse gases?
Or, more broadly, do you think there are a class of gases that transmit visible light and absorb infrared?
Does soot efficiently convert visible light to infrared radiation?
Does the albedo of the Earth's surface affect global energy balance?
Still trying to figure out your logical and factual framework.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Your argument seems to be, we don't know so lets stick our heads in the sand and carry on poisoning the enviroment...
Surely it would be best to assume it is happening? Cleaning up our act is not going to harm us in any great deal if it isn't happening, but not doing anything if it is...
Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
Thanks for putting words in my mouth. If you're suggesting we 'clean up our act', fine... I'm all in favor of that. Cleaner burning fuels, recycling, conserving energy,...heck yeah, I do my part there. But if you mean something on the level of, say, the Kyoto Protocol, then I disagree. Even Tony Blair has come to realize what a fiasco that misguided treaty would be.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Auraptor,
I think that your views are much the same as mine.
Here is a summation,
1. I believe in Global Warming
2. I believe in Global Cooling
3. I believe that 1 and 2 above are a natural phenomemom.
4. I am not convinced that "Global Warming" is caused by man made pollution.
5. I am not convinced that man made pollution has absolutely no part in "Global Warming".
6 I am convinced that the scientific community does not know enough about long term climate change and the cause of them.
7 I am convinced that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
8. Due to 7 above I am totally against proposed fixes to "Global Warming" such as burying CO2 (carbon dumps).
9. I am convinced that eliminating man made pollution is a good idea. Not because of "global warming", but because it is a good idea.
10. I am convinced that people who contribute to the "Global Warming" hysteria are part of the problem, not a part of the cure.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
No, you are demanding "hundreds" of years of statistics to make the case for global warming,
Leading experts disagree about global warming. Thus we have to look at what evidence we have of past centuries. That evidence does not consider the recent weather or climate issues to be unusual. If anything they fit a larger typical pattern that can be traced back thousands of years.
Now, I'm no expert, but I can predict that the coming century will see hurricanes, floods, blizzards, droughts, earthquakes, Tsunamis, tornados, and extinctions.
Ooops, I was referring to the 20th Century...or maybe the 19th...hmmm, could have been the 18th...nope, definately the 17th, yep...wait, forgot the 16th...no, no definately the 15th...damn those 14th century storms was sumtin fierce they were...and Sygny, remember the mid 13th Century, those were wild times...but nothing compared to the 12th...now the 11th was nothing special...not at all like the 10th, what being the turn of the millenium, now that was the end of the world for you....but then there was...
In Ohio it rained all day today. God help us all.
H
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Hero, its awfully nice of you to stick up for Auraptor, but your post contributed NOTHING to the discussion. BTw- you "forgot" to add the context of my comment to Auraptor- which was that (s)he is willing to accept only six years of Mars data (of unknown significance) simply because it fits in with his pre-concieved notions but requires "hundreds" of years of data for an idea that he doesn't "believe" in. My point wsa that the data filtration was rather heavy.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero, its awfully nice of you to stick up for Auraptor, but your post contributed NOTHING to the discussion. BTw- you "forgot" to add the context of my comment to Auraptor- which was that (s)he is willing to accept only six years of Mars data (of unknown significance) simply because it fits in with his pre-concieved notions but requires "hundreds" of years of data for an idea that he doesn't "believe" in. My point wsa that the data filtration was rather heavy.
Please don't think they give a shit.
Yes, just like the Mann report and the infamous "Hockey Stick" graph. The data filtration was rather heavy. Of course that did'nt stop it from being quoted as proof of "Global Warming" ad naseum.
Bye the way, I think Auraptor was referring to one of these reports (in relation to Mars Climate):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18
.xml
There are more like it if you look for it. It's more research, more possible links to the current warming trend. More information to add to the puzzle. After all, as any true engineer or scientist will tell you:
Information is the Key, and without the key, the door to true understanding remains locked.
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Oh, bye the way, SignyM and Rue,
Please explain to me why, if the global temperature is as high now, as it was during the mideival warming period, how come we did'nt pass the point of no return back then?
Come to think of it, there were'nt a whole lot of cars and stuff to produce man made pollution back then, so why in the heck did it get so hot in the first place?
Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.
BarnStormer
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Quote:I did actually look for it. In fact, I posted more links to the concept than Auraptor. But since it was Auraptor's idea, I think the burden of looking for evidence is on him, not me, which is why I REPEATEDLY asked for correlative data on sunspots and Earth's climate. Which Auraptor rather pointedly did not provide.
There are more like it if you look for it. It's more research, more possible links to the current warming trend.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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