Conceal-Carry Passes Handgun Bill in Minnesota

POSTED BY: Channain
UPDATED: Friday, January 23, 2004 19:20
VIEWED: 24375
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LERXST

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:30 AM

So true. Thanks!

_________________________________________________
Raspberry! Only one man would dare give me the raspberry...LONESTAR!!

WULFHAWK

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:08 AM

Dear Shiny, please, for your own good, pay attention.

There is no nonviolent theft.

If you give a bum on the street corner some change, that's charity. If the bum confronts you and demands money, that's violence. Same people, same exchange, same result, different thing.

It's ok to be kind, understanding, and charitable, but you must remember that every theft, even 'white collar' theft, is carried out with violence in act or mind. If the bum that demanded money on the street corner didn't get what he wanted, then what? Every criminal theft expresses a disregard for others, the very disregard that makes violence easy to consider.

I know you have your ethics to consider, but don't be a victim, don't play at being prey.

tanstaafl

WULFHAWK

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:27 AM

Thanks, Koffee. Preciate ya coverin' for me.

Lerxst, I still owe you a Tequila challenge, don't I? I really own only one gun, a nice 12ga extended mag. However, my collection of swords and knives can bring visitors to a dead stop. 8)
And thanks to years of Medieval sword training, I like to think my Kukri is a match for any handgun...so long as we are in the same dark room.
I learned tanstaafl from Robert A. Heinlein's works of science fiction. Worth your time, if you got the time.

tanstaafl

KOFFEE

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 7:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfhawk:
Thanks, Koffee. Preciate ya coverin' for me.

No problem.

I was just happy that I remembered what it was. At another board I post at for the author Jean Auel( http://ecfans.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi ), one of the guys is a fan of Heinlein as well and uses that as his sig line.

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“It's a real burn, being right so often.”

ARCHER

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:09 AM

Miss Sarah, I have no doubt that Alan can recite the Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, and the chapter and verse of the Federalist Papers.

Additionally, I bet he can really thunder out that whole bit about "Treason never prospers."

Bet he makes a killer shrimp scampi, too.

Wulfhawk- Y'know, all these years I avoided getting any tattoos for two reasons. First off, all those APBs and Most Wanted bits where they say "Suspect has a large rhinoceros tattoo on his left buttock." gave me an aversion to distinguishing bodily alterations. The other is the fact that I've seen how they don't come out looking that good after about forty years of wear. But the challenge has been given, and upon my honor I shall accept.

(And we know what that means... yep, training! I vow to spend the next six months not spending an off-duty moment without a bottle in hand. The legacy of my Viking ancestors is at stake here.)

Matters of honor aside, I believe you will full well understand when I say my political leanings tend to follow the path of one Professor Bernardo De La Paz, no?

Shiny- No one has the right to take your property against your will.* Simple as that. Letting someone trespass against your labors and possessions simply encourages them to take such liberties again and again, and ultimately perhaps talk themselves into worse predations. Furthermore, an intruder in my homestead in the night isn't going to receive a great deal of benefit of the doubt as to whether they're just trying to haul out my electronics or my precious precious books (as if) or perhaps harboring more malicious designs. In a civilized land, we draw our lines, and a person crosses them at their own peril.

*The exception being the accursed, wretched, babystealing blood-drinking godrotted scumsucking minions of the Infernal Revenue Service. It's a rather tender issue right now, because they're threatening to levy our assets over a Heavy Road Use Tax that we not only paid, but overpaid, and sent them documentation on, in order to receive the refund on our overpaid amount. Weeks ago we did this. Yet they call us up last week and come at us with a threat to essentially shut the company down. Some of those colorful Mandarin phrases from the show would work wonders for expressing my sentiments on the matter. Any company out there jerks me around like this, I don't ever shovel any money their way ever again. But alas, one cannot unsubscribe from the Feds. Feh. Rant off.

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Paraphrased from memory, since retrieving my copy of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress would require a dedicated team of archaeologists.

"It turned out that we wouldn't have to rob banks to finance the revolution after all. Prof seemed to be disappointed by that."

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:28 AM

Hey everybody, check this out!
http://www.strangefinger.com/america.mpg

15 MB video but worth the download. I don't know who made this but it's been in a movie.

http://www.strangefinger.com/america.mpg

HARDWARE

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 2:33 PM

Okay, time to chime in with my $.02.

Having met the requirements for obtaining a license to carry in Massachusetts, one of the most difficult states to obtain a carry license in, I feel obliged to share some of what I learned in that process.

You can used deadly force, defined as any object or device designed to kill, to defend your life, or the life of another. You may not legally use deadly force to defend property, an exception to this in some states being livestock. A gun is deadly force. A knife is deadly force. A broken bottle is deadly force in most places. A baseball bat is not.

The supreme court has ruled that it is legal to shoot an armed felon fleeing the scene of a crime. That doesn't mean you won't be charged with a crime if you do this. It just means that the supreme court says it is okay, Keep in mind that the supreme court often reverses itself.

The supreme court has also ruled that the police do not exist to protect your life. The police exist to enforce the law. YOU are responsible for defending your life. You can also be charged with a crime for defending your life. Does that mean the charges will stick? No, but often the police have a "book 'em Dano" mentality that allows them to see all parties involved safely behind bars until things get sorted out.

Finally, true story, when I had my carry license in Mass. I carried a large frame automatic in a inside belt holster at the small of my back. I'm big enough to conceal a .45 automatic or a high capacity 9mm without it being noticeable. (another big, strapping lad.) After moving to another state and allowing my license to lapse I was carjacked. Three teenagers stuck a gun in my face and demanded my wallet, keys and car. I had owned the car for six days and I gave it up. When the police arrived I told them that the gun was a small revolver, too small to be a .38 and too big to be a .22. I also told them I did not recall seeing any holes in the face of the cylinder. The next day these Mensa members got caught driving my car with the starter pistol they used concealed under the seat.

If I had been carrying my pistol all three of those teenagers would have been dead. I would have made the assumption that since one was armed, all were armed.

If I had been carrying or not if I had taken a second look at the "gun" I would have reached into the car, grabbed my maglight and we would have played LAPD and Rodney King.

There is a "gray zone" where people with training are held to a higher standard. A small woman or man is going to be able to stand up in court and say that they felt their life was in jeopardy when confronted by three hostile teenagers where a 300 pound man will not. A person carrying a gun is held to a higher legal standard that a person without. They are supposed to exercise better judgement. Saying that because one person has not, that all people will act foolishly just doesn't follow.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

SKULLNINJA

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:00 PM

Coming from Arizona, where we have CCW permits (have one myself) and the right to carry in the open long before that (that's right, you can carry on your hip without permit), the hard cold fact of it is that neither promotes violence, in fact, all research (legitamate data, that is) shows that it actually lowers violent crime. The anti-gun wackos need to grow up. I'm a big man (6'4"), a former college football player, and the way I like to cut to the quick on the rhetoric is to point out that without a gun, most humans walking the planet aren't going to be able to stop me if I chose to assault them, but if somebody pulls out a gun, it puts me in the same boat with everybody else.

Bless Governor Ventura for laying down the groundwork for this common sense "right".

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Hey everybody, check this out!
http://www.strangefinger.com/america.mpg

15 MB video but worth the download. I don't know who made this but it's been in a movie.

Everyone needs to watch this video clip!

CHANNAIN

Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullNinja
Bless Governor Ventura for laying down the groundwork for this common sense "right".

Thanks for mentioning that. I've beein finding it rather ironic that Gov. Ventura was the one who started this, and yet it was passed after he was out of office. I really didn't expect the new guy, Pawlenty, to go for this, I guess, Republicans being so conservative about everything else and all. But after checking out his bio, and a listing of Republican beliefs it seems I was dead wrong.

Quote:
Sworn in on January 6, 2003, Pawlenty challenged Minnesotans to “turn problems into progress” by balancing the budget through bold, historic reform.

Apparently his bold historic reform isn't limited to our budget. I tell ya, I learn something new every day...especially when I visit FFF

"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal

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