Matrix Reloaded - Surprise!

POSTED BY: merlindrea
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 22:57
VIEWED: 9124
PAGE 3 of 4

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, May 17, 2003 8:10 PM

Sorry for two in a row, but a long one like the one before is what you get when you get when you say something stupid in the presence of someone who is a trained movie critic (not a professional, I would never stoop that low.)

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
But they are machines, they are not supposed to have the same "human" qualities... Notice how they had not problems accepting that this is what has to happen a la the keymaker dieing, yet they fear being shut down? I think not. The machines should have a communal psyche. What is good for all should be done mentality.

Secondly, the matrix itself is not upgraded. There is no reason for it to be upgraded. Unexplained changes cause panic and fear, People don't accept it. Whole crops are lost,etc...

"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

You have to remember that this is not about machines, it is about AI. Watch Short Circuit, what was it that convinced the guy that number 5 was really intelligent? Answer is he got a joke. Intelligence is directly related to creativity, the ability to process and extrapolate isn’t intelligence any computer now can do that. It is really made plain when the oracle is described as an intuitive program.

Everything that human beings consider intelligent has come from an intuitive process, even things that seem counter intuitive were discovered by intuitive processes. So with that in mind what do you think someone would consider to be intelligent? Logic alone can’t cut it, if you lived you entire life off of logic you would be the stupidest person that I ever heard of. Part of being intelligent is knowing when logic doesn’t apply. As soon as you break away from logic any number of things can happen, and human like qualities are one of them.

I like what you said “The machines should have a communal psyche. What is good for all should be done mentality.” I can put out something that is also true “People should have a communal psyche. What is good for all should be done mentality.” Think of it, people doing what is good for all, no more murder or rape, no more war, no more hunger, resources given to those who need them, no more greed or suffering.

Should has never, once, in the world of nature or mechanics made any difference. Should is not a defining factor. If you want proof, then imagine that what I said did happen, and everyone was nice to each other, how long would it take before someone took advantage of the situation and took over? All it would take is one who was greedy for it all to come crumbling down.

And what if they were exactly as you said, because they are intelligent there would be areas where they would disagree, so then there would be conflict, if one did not believe that it was for the common good for it to be shut down then for the common good it would oppose it. What you are trying to describe is a perfect machine society, perfection doesn’t work out most of the time. For what you described to work there would have to be a hive mind, and that is not what we are shown in the Matrix, so it only makes sense that there would be a disharmony.

As for the upgrades, I’ve spoke enough, but it does make sense for there to be them. However I don’t think that they meant that the matrix was upgraded, just the agent programs and the like.

SIRENKAIN

Saturday, May 17, 2003 10:35 PM

Let's face it Matrix 2 was weaker then the first one. It felt slow and preachy in the beginning and even some of the fights seemded strained. Was it terrible NO, does it deserve the hype NO. Is it just a long set up for M3 OH YES, will I be at the sneak preview for the next one too OH YES (here is my 10 bucks give me my fix please).

still thinking I think

WULFHAWK

Saturday, May 17, 2003 10:49 PM

The rave so many seem to find distasteful isn't just a giant 'club' scene. The W. bro's don't have to put in scenes just to appeal to barely post-pubescent teens who need MTV interpretation of social issues.

Simply put, it wasn't a 'rave', it was a town meeting. Some folks go out and bowl after a town meeting, or head to McDs, or whatever strikes their fancy. These folks dance, drink, eat, and be merry. First, it clearly frames the somewhat alien society we are seeing here (not totally alien, I think; surely you've seen American Democratic/Republican Party meetings). Second, it points up the somewhat alien behavior of these people; they demonstrate some nearly 'hive' behavior. Third, it connects with history, our history; Romans, Vikings, and American Indians would certainly have related to this kind of political/social gathering.

This is a beautiful, if verbose, movie. I am certainly going to see it again.

tanstaafl

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, May 17, 2003 11:05 PM

Wulfhawk, thank you.

SLOWSMURF

Saturday, May 17, 2003 11:40 PM

I was calling it a rave cause everyone did, hell, I'm not even sure what a rave is!

I loved it, not as much as the original(sorry :P), but all the effects/story/etc wasn't what I was expecting, it was good. I kinda wish they'd done a bit more with neo(more bullet stopping for example), but, then the fights would've been over too easily and that would've been bad too.

Oh well, it was good and quite enjoyable, thats good enough for me.

MERLINDREA

Sunday, May 18, 2003 2:22 AM

Wow, seems I opened a can of worms here . But I am happy that I am not the only one who enjoyed the movie.

Regarding the so-called Rave scene (not sure if it is Rave really, either), what it conveyed to me was not teenies dancing, but the urge for dance, sex, life - to enjoy everything, feel everything because tomorrow you might be dead. And the rhythms really supported this feeling.

I agree that Reloaded has the problems most 2nd's of Trilogies have. But it left me with a lot to think about. If Zion and 'Reality' is after all not real - what is? With this twist, everything is possible for the Revolutions. I can't wait!

Merl

SCOTTI

Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:10 PM

Finally got a chance to go see TM:R, and I just have to chime in here. It was incredible. It seems to me that most everyone here that feels the need to give a negative review of it, do so just to be "controversial".

First and foremost, we go to the movies to SUSPEND belief. If you're looking for deeper meaning at the movies, you have bigger problems than any of us can help you deal with...

That being said, I really enjoyed the movie. Someone said earlier that the previews you've seen are just a taste of the whole experience. Visually, the effects are incredible. The bar is definitely being raised, constantly

The "rave" scene (to use the popular misnomer) has sadly been misinterpreted by a lot of people. This is a lot more than a "slo-mo rave/fuck scene". It is a "Celebration of Life" (quotes and caps necessary here). Zion is the center of humanity, and this is an attempt to defy the machines, by dancing and cavorting in the face of their impendimg demise. IMHO

Also, it's about 8 minutes of the movie, so I fail to see the problem.

Finally, I have to mention this: this was the first movie I had been to in a long time where people actually clapped and cheered.

_______________________________________________
Mal: You are very much lacking in imagination.
Zoe: I imagine that's so, sir.

ARCHER

Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:41 PM

I was suspending my disbelief right up to the part prior to the 'rave' where Neo says "I've been thinking..." to Trinity.

At which point my subconscious took over and provided an alternate and more plausible dialogue.

"I've been thinking..."

"No Neo, no! Don't you remember what happened last time?"

"..."

"The electric can opener that needed 'more power'? The reason we had to get another ship?"

"Whoa."

Seriously though, I did enjoy it. Having a Matrix in a Matrix goes a long way toward clearing up the coppertop nonsense. (Why not just plug in some nice cows? Keep the grass green and they'll never go around unplugging themselves.)

The 'rave' is explicable in terms of a society that requires a high reproduction rate to survive in a state of constant warfare. That said, it wasn't inserted very well and dragged on. Likewise, the first fight scene with Smith just went on... and on... and on...

But damn, the highway sequence was beautiful.

Not a great movie, but I did manage to settle in and enjoy it.

"Surprised to see me, Mr. Anderson? Never heard of... backups?"

"Still using all the muscles but the most important one? No, no, that's not a muscle, Mr. Anderson. Put your pants back on."

TRAGICSTORY

Sunday, May 18, 2003 10:01 PM

I have to respectfully disagree. This movie is not about AI, but machines. As you stated before it is nessicary to suspend belief. People do not want their movies gray. They want Jedis vs. Stromtroopers. They want the hero to win against all odds and to see some T&A in the process (FAN SERVICE).

You can rave about how the rave scene (pun intended )but in truth I see it as fan service. Had that and the sex scenes been removed it would not have altered the plot. This makes it fan service. The fight scenes were cool, but in a been there, done that kind of way. Anyone who sees decent martial arts films would know that it was nothing extrodinary. They too were fan service. The only part of the movie which extended the plot was the last few minutes AND that is what makes the movie a failure IMHO.

I liked watching it and it is a fun way to kill 2 hours but it is no where up to the hype.

"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

KYOBONITSUKI

Sunday, May 18, 2003 10:59 PM

is matrix a good movie? no. is it "pink caddillac? no. i have no problem suspending disbelief - but matrix presents itself in the manner of a serious (as compared to ernest films) manner. for a serious film to require the viewers to conciously have to make the choice of suspending thier logic and saying - "okay this is a movie" is poor filmmaking.

is matrix an episode one - hell no. there were parts of matrix i did like - not so for episodes 1&2. honestly i never found matrix to be "original." i mean christ bullet time is from a goddamn gap commercial! the story is an old one - told many times before - i mean bladerunner was a story that questioned what the viewer assumed as reality (is decker a replicant - well the director said yes).

i don't really have that much to say about the story of martix reloaded - it was unremarkable but not bad. my disappointment lies in the details - as has been said the rave served no real function to advance the story - it was gratuitous - and a poor substitute for real nudity - but it's a cop out pg13 film so whatcha gunna do?

i like kung fu - and tiger/dragon was a great will that i had no problem accepting that fantasy of - matrix doesn't make that sell all the time. the wire work in the beginning - despite being by the same guy - is not nearly as good as tiger/dragon. it looks like wire work not like flight or throws or what have you.

the computer gen in the pole fight is horrible - it looks like cgi. the goal should be to NOT look like cgi. many of the actors are poorly utilized - bellucci is an incredible actress - and with an R rating maybe she could have given us our gratuitous erotica in style.

i will say the i think this is the best i've ever seen keanu. which doesn't say much i kno, but hey. jada pinkett sucked however. hugo weaving - entertaining. monica bellucci has been better - but the three lines she was allowed weren't bad.

am i a film snob - maybe. hollywood puts out an enormous ammount of crap. to be fair so does europe and asia - but most of what we get at art houses here has filtered filtered out the crap. thus i tend to like foreign film more - i mean how many times can i watch gibson/willis/arnold/stallone save the day in a big orange explosion?

point being i completely disagree that matrix 1 or 2 were the best thing since sliced bread or were original. in story or FX. it was a big budget version of stuff we've seen in some way before - in HK film or what have you. however matrix one came to gether better - reloaded, despite being thrown back into production after the spiderman preview came out - failed to pull everything together.

it was a disappointment. was it the hype? maybe. but i do remember thinking that matrix managed to end right as i was getting tired of it. so maybe matrix just aint my bag.

i guess i expect more. what more you ask? well you've all seen firefly - i dig that. original or not it pulls everything together in a way that i'm not compelled to sit there and think - christ this scene sucks - or look at my watch. oh hell some of the ernest films did that for me - tho i wouldn't consider them anywhere near the calibre of firefly.

thats what i mean by matrix being uneven. it aimed high - hit the mark in places but missed in others. ernest aimed low - hard to miss there. firefly aimed high and delivered.

hopefully hulk will fair better than reloaded - but the hulk pulling that super-speed crap has me worried.

cheers

matt

p.s. let it be known that i for one, greatly enjoy the character of kaylee - even tho polls show that most of you don't!

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE