The Message

POSTED BY: GuerillaTheatre
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 04:03
VIEWED: 8087
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THIEFJEHAT

Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
No the first thought in Mal's head is 'How can I protect my crew?'. In this case, the only sensible thing is to tell Tracey the plan.

No, I disagree.

If you character act this out in your own mind Mal's thought is more like "I'm confused by this turn of events. Furthermore I am angry and I'm also the captain. This kid was a private under my NCO command and he damn well knows better than to stick a gun in my face...and he's doing it on my boat"

This is summed up by what Mal actually says

"You mailed your ugly business to Zoe and me Tracey. Cash on Delivery. I'll go to hell before I watch you turn and bite us for the favor"

I would have felt betrayed by Joss had Mal tried to explain his grand plan to Tracey. It is not in Mal's nature to back down or to be told what to do. Now somebody like Wash? There's the bigger question. Wash is just the person to say something like "Wait Wait....it's cool...we have a shiney plan" But I felt that it was a better episode that Wash held silent and let the captain be the boss.

I feel strongly that there was never a plot hole.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

SPINLAND

Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:58 PM

My belief in a plot hole in this episode actually comes from a different source.

When Wash pilots the ship brilliantly through the narrow canyon, sure he's lost all pursuit, he's chagrined to look up and see Womack was too smart to follow him in; he just flew overhead and kept position advantage while staying in the clear. Brilliant move, Joss, and I applauded it.

So, when they're ready to "give up" Tracey, why does Womack allow himself to be drawn into a strange ship, containing who knows how many armed crewmembers, thus giving up his decisive advantage in the situation? His fancy and well-armed ship was his one trump card. Bad, bad and stupid move. Better to make them send Tracey across open ground, to enter Womack's ship--then Womack could blow Serenity to cinders and be on his way.

For that matter, after he'd been thwarted twice, I don't buy Womack's not blowing them on the way out, just for spite. He was clearly the type for such things, they now had him pegged as a Fed who illegally moonlighted, and the local Fed base would be none the wiser--he'd proven that by depth-charging them with impunity.

No, that's the plot hole in the episode that bothers me. Mal was in a no-win situatuion, and it feels lame that he got out of it based on what was presented.

---------------------------
I didn't do it.
You can't prove it.
The sheep are lying.

THIEFJEHAT

Friday, September 16, 2005 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinland:
So, when they're ready to "give up" Tracey, why does Womack allow himself to be drawn into a strange ship, containing who knows how many armed crewmembers, thus giving up his decisive advantage in the situation? His fancy and well-armed ship was his one trump card. Bad, bad and stupid move. Better to make them send Tracey across open ground, to enter Womack's ship--then Womack could blow Serenity to cinders and be on his way.

One could argue that Womack was an exceptionally arrogant person and futher felt that he was meerly dealing with small time cargo haulers who wouldn't put up a fight. Then you could further justify that with a statement regarding Womack's extremely low wisdom. He also added the line "I've been shot to many times to be scared by a gun boy" to Jayne which kinda portrays those traits.

Quote:
For that matter, after he'd been thwarted twice, I don't buy Womack's not blowing them on the way out, just for spite. He was clearly the type for such things, they now had him pegged as a Fed who illegally moonlighted, and the local Fed base would be none the wiser--he'd proven that by depth-charging them with impunity.

Now thats a good point. After being outmanuvered by Mal...and then threatened by Book, I can see Womack taking off and launching a couple rockets into a small time cargo-hauler. And he's just the kind of hateful person to do such a thing.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

KIZYR

Sunday, September 25, 2005 5:09 AM

The Message is my second-favourite episode, right behind Out of Gas, and still I think it's the best that offers insight into what the war was like. It's like I said in another thread, and like what Tracey implies in his recording... he might've survived the war, but it still killed him.

The more I look at it, though... I don't see the 'plotholes' y'all are talking about. There are a lot of occasions where characters simply make mistakes. Whedon's characters are very human, so sometimes come crunch time they slip up. Mal's need for control outweight considering telling Tracey the plan. Wash overlooked the possibility of the pursuing ship avoiding flying into the canyon. And the pursuing officer was so confident, he didn't have a problem walking onto the ship--he had them cornered, so he figured on an unconditional surrender.

As for how human organ transport would work... eh, they never explain quite how terraforming works either. I chalk it up to another technological advance. It's science fiction, so it seems like such a minor thing to quibble over in an otherwise brilliant episode. KF

EDIT: This reminds me, I need to change my AIM profile... Currently it's a paraphrased line from the commentary on The Message: "Since I wasn't in this scene, I spent the entire time planning the party afterwards. You know, the 'we're not working for Fox anymore' party." ~Alan Tudyk. KF

~Kaiser Farooque

SONMICA

Saturday, October 15, 2005 3:29 PM

I've only watched this episode recently and I'm just going by what I remember from the top of my head, but I just wanted to add my two cents.

From what I understood of it, Tracey was as cowardly as he was lazy. Tracey. Ain't you been killed yet? The only reason he survived the war was because of Mal and Zoe. In the flashback, Tracey is sitting down having beans ... he could have been killed right then if it weren't for Zoe, and it was because he let his guard down, he was less attentive than he should have been.

Through his own actions, bad judgement and bad decision making, he ended up in the kind of trouble he was in. He was tangled up with dangerous people, he had sold his body for illegal smuggling (shows what he would do for money), and he was a long way from home with no sign of easily dodging his problems. He took the easy way out, by "dying", and dumped the rest of it on Zoe and Mal.

Now Mal is fierce protective of his crew, and in comes Tracey from out of nowhere, dumping his problems on them, and then puts their lives in danger to save his own hide. What I understood from that scene and the reason that Tracey had to die, was that he had gotten himself into this mess, he should be responsible for what happens. Mal wouldn't allow his crew to be threatened or harmed by Alliance for something they had nothing to do with, all because Tracey wanted to run from his problems and his responsibilities.

When I watched this episode (albeit, only the one time), I didn't really think about wether or not it had plot-holes. I did think that it was kind of odd that Tracey died, whereas many a crew member with more serious looking wounds lived (thanks to Simon), but now that I think about it, it all makes some sort of sense. Tracey was saved the humility (?) of being punished by the people he betrayed, but at the same time, he was punished for his bad judgement and lack of seriousness when it came to real decisions. His undoing was all his own fault, and Mal knew it. That call means you just murdered me... You murdered yourself, son.

We went to war never looking to come back, but it's the real world I couldn't survive. Tracey lost the luxury of having his skin saved by Zoe and Mal when the war ended, and they went their seperate ways. Wasn't never no good at life, anyhow... Couldn't seem to make sense of it... Always running scared...

Anyways that's my take on it. There's probably a lot of things to contest in it ... I have to go watch that episode again with the commentary on. =)

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:44 PM

This is my take on the plot hole of not telling Tracey the plan: I don't think Mal had a plan when Tracey pointed the gun. I think Book was the one with the plan and he hadn't told Mal yet. This would explain to me why Mal hesitated so long before he agreed with Book that their only option was to hand over Tracey. Had Mal actually had a plan at that point, he wouldn't have hesitated. I think Book had the plan and was about to tell Tracey so before Tracey threatened to shoot him. Also, they didn't know that plan was going to work. It wasn't exactly the best plan ever. Anyways, that's my take and this is still one of my fave eps, for reasons listed in the fave eps thread.

~~~~~~~
Man walks down the street in a hat like that, people know he's not afraid of anything.

GGREEN29

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
* The whole theme of this episode is something that was just beginning as a story arc, and given the cancellation, and shift in emphasis with the movies, something I fear won't see follow through. I'm talking about the idea that Mal can't be entirely content with the path he's chosen. The episode brings home the fact that Mal and crew, despite their various heroic qualites, are thieves and killers.

That's why I love the scene near the beginning of the movie when River comes down and says to Mal "Do you [know your role]? Mal's response breaks my heart when he says "This is what I do darling...this is what I do." His pain is clear; his life--the universe-- didn't turn out anyway near the way he expected. He lives on the edge astrally and morally, regularly dealing with and depending on unsavory and untrustworthy folk.

The thing that I like most about this episode is the combat camaraderie demonstrated when Zoe and Mal first lift Tracy's coffin and Book steps in to help; the way Zoe says "We got him" I think conveys the sense of duty the vets feel for each other, even if they mayn't have liked each other. Later in the dispensary, when Tracy is on the floor and looks up and sees Zoe, she replies by saying "Private." Not "hi, how are ya", or addressing him by name but "Private [yer screwed up as usual]."

Then the death scene on the ship near the end, when Zoe and Mal stay by him as he goes. They stay by him not because they like him, but because he was one of theirs and they're duty bound to do it. It never occurs to them not to. Those are the main reasons this is one of my favorite episodes and I don't even give any thought to the plot.

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