How Universal treats you, its customers
POSTED BY: SebastianFelis
UPDATED: Friday, September 16, 2005 19:32
VIEWED: 24499
PAGE 8 of 11
Truthfully, Universal will probably just ignore your request. You may get a nice little response that says "we apologize if you feel inconvenienced.. or whatever"
But the simple truth is everything that has an audience that is filmed - has the same disclaimer.
Whether it's a sporting event, concert or Q&A.
How many times have people bought tickets to football games and not EVEN BEEN AWARE that they are consenting to the exact same forfeiture of rights to have thier likeness used in film, broadcast, home video and anything else in perpetuity throughout the Universe. Out of all the MILLIONS of people who have unknowingly given up their rights, I'm sure there have been several thousands of people who have complained about it or sued. But I personally am not aware of one single instance where I have ever heard of someone winning a lawsuit. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but are you aware of any?
The simple fact is
(regardless of paying for the ticket)
1.You attended a UNIVERSAL SPONSORED function
2.You SAW a professional camera crew filming
3. You did not choose to leave after noticing the camera crew started to film.
Whether or not you ever would have recieved the disclaimer is irrelevant.
It's just a sad fact of life. However, I do encourage you to call a civil trial attorney to get their perspective. Simply because at least then you would be provided with real information on what your legal rights were.
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Sebastianfelis, I can understand that you may have felt that a kind of "bait-and-switch" was happening when you got the legal notice from Universal. However, you were presented with an opportunity to be "made whole" by getting your money back and walking away with exclusive rights to your likeness intact.
Instead you made the choice that your rights to reproduction of your likeness et al were worth the price of admission, and you stayed in the room. So, as the notice says, your continued participation in the Q&A served as a waiver of those rights at that time, in that place.
Now, in retrospect, you've dramatically upped the sales price of the rights that you have already given away. Universal's lawyers will immediately see through this. If anything, they will simply pixellate your image or edit you out of any footage in which you may appear. So again...no harm, no foul, right? Your likeness won't be used without your permission.
Ideally you should have been informed of this rights waiver at the time you purchased your ticket. You weren't. That's a shame. Whoops, their bad. (But again, you were offered a remedy at the time.)
Also, I'd suggest that you be very careful what you wish for. Are you really, really sure that you want Universal to play hardball with all their intellectual property? Are you asking them to protect their rights with the same strenuous enthusiasm with which you're protecting yours? Do you really want them to file "cease and desist" orders with this site and all other sites that wantonly reproduce their intellectual property (Firefly/Serenity photos, names, locations, etc.)? Are you sure you want Universal to stop you or anyone else from re-creating Vera or Kaylee's Shindig dress or Mal's brown coat? Do you really want to have to learn how to use the ®, TM and SM symbols? Do you want Universal to sue everyone who has ever used a screen cap to create an avatar?
I would suggest that you just let this drop. Life's too short to pay lawyers with your blood, sweat and tears. And please don't presume to speak for others.
I don't want Universal to open a can of whoop-ass on people like me who went to DragonCon dressed in Kaylee's coveralls (or a close facsimile thereof). And no, I don't want venues like DragonCon to force its 26,000 attendees to get photo releases from each other before they post their digital pics to LiveJournal.
Jeez louise!
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Can I just say to the people complaining about the corporate Arse-reaming we all recieve, that the reason we have our BDM, and even Firefly at all, is because these huge corporations exist. Its a double-edged sword. If you think its not worth the price, don't watch Hollywood movies, don't want TV AT ALL unless you're talking about public access, and make a stand in a more realistic fashion, rather than popping your head up and shooting this out of nowhere.
Corporations are everywhere. This is an impotent and hypocritical, not to mention ungrateful way of fighting back.
Would you hit your mother for buying you an awesome toy, and then telling you couldn't use it whenever and however you felt like it?
Cry baby cry.
Make your mother sigh.
She’s old enough to know better. So cry baby cry
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All the guy really wants is them to properly (as they are supposed to!, I found out yesterday) hand out said flyers BEFORE money is exchanged.
Is that really so much to ask?
I can see how he maybe didn't approach it in the best kinda way, but that's where polite suggestions trump flamage as a general rule.
I don't see nothin wrong with politely asking the theatres to hand out any stuff of this nature before money is exchanged, for appropriate legal reasons if nothing else.
The conduct of folk in this thread has kinda shamed me as a browncoat, it's really stupid to make oneself look worse by attempting to keep someone else from making them look bad...
Y'all wanna tar and feather someone, go do it to the f*x board of directors, at least they have it coming, argh.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by SebastianFelis:
> They aren't being jerks, they're protecting themselves against jerks.
I disagree. If they asked us to sign those forms, they would have been protecting themselves. By sneakily sort-of informing people that we've already handed over our rights, they're being jerks.
> Your suggestion doesn't work either. You want them to get notarized signatures from every member of the audience? Might as well kiss any future screenings goodbye. It's too much hassle for Universal.
It was easy enough for a couple of browncoats to wander up and down the line collecting messages to Joss. Substitute release forms for those, collect them at the door, and suddenly it doesn't look hard at all.
Notes to Joss aren't the same as legal documents. What if I sign my name Ted Fraiser? I'm not Ted Fraiser. Do they know that? Heck no. All of a sudden I slap a lawsuit on them because they didn't get a consent form signed by me. They're hosed.
They were just covering their backs in an efficient manner. You obviously didn't have enough of a problem with it to leave the screening. You didn't put your money where your mouth is and you're making it very public that you didn't.
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Quote:
Notes to Joss aren't the same as legal documents. What if I sign my name Ted Fraiser? I'm not Ted Fraiser. Do they know that? Heck no. All of a sudden I slap a lawsuit on them because they didn't get a consent form signed by me. They're hosed.
Valid point, but then I'd expect them to defend on the basis of best efforts and countersue for fraud...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
All the guy really wants is them to properly (as they are supposed to!, I found out yesterday) hand out said flyers BEFORE money is exchanged.
Is that really so much to ask?
I can see how he maybe didn't approach it in the best kinda way, but that's where polite suggestions trump flamage as a general rule.
I don't see nothin wrong with politely asking the theatres to hand out any stuff of this nature before money is exchanged, for appropriate legal reasons if nothing else.
The conduct of folk in this thread has kinda shamed me as a browncoat, it's really stupid to make oneself look worse by attempting to keep someone else from making them look bad...
Y'all wanna tar and feather someone, go do it to the f*x board of directors, at least they have it coming, argh.
-Frem
Frem,
The aggrieved party in this case has earned his ire. At no point did he behave well.
He did not politely ask the theatres to hand out such waivers before money is exchanged in the future. He did not politely suggest to Universal that they do so. He skipped polite suggestions altogether and
A) Threatened to demand money from them and
B) Spoke on behalf of others who may not share his views.
The irony of his implied consent from fellow Browncoats to make demands on their behalf seems to be lost on you, Frem.
In addition, the aggrieved party
1) Did receive the waiver in time to do something about it and
2) Did nothing to remedy the situation at the time.
The aggrieved party had a right to be upset. But the aggrieved party handled his anger poorly, and thereby earned the anger of others.
How can you support his right to be upset at Universal, and yet deny our right to be upset at him?
As ye sow, Frem.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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ok i haven't read all the replies, but as an actor who's done some work in t.v. and indie films, this is a standard release form, and whenever a film/t.v. Co. is filming anything you should expect a release form. it's basically them covering there own ass.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrDredge:
Truthfully, Universal will probably just ignore your request. You may get a nice little response that says "we apologize if you feel inconvenienced.. or whatever"
But the simple truth is everything that has an audience that is filmed - has the same disclaimer.
Whether it's a sporting event, concert or Q&A.
How many times have people bought tickets to football games and not EVEN BEEN AWARE that they are consenting to the exact same forfeiture of rights to have thier likeness used in film, broadcast, home video and anything else in perpetuity throughout the Universe. Out of all the MILLIONS of people who have unknowingly given up their rights, I'm sure there have been several thousands of people who have complained about it or sued. But I personally am not aware of one single instance where I have ever heard of someone winning a lawsuit. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but are you aware of any?
Like I said, on the back of your ticket (they don't call it Small Print fer nothin'), and sometimes posted at the ticket office and around the exits, will be a caveat much like the one that someone posted here.
You have to believe there's more than one or two people who are in NFL Films that didn't expect or want to be. For perpetuity.
Actually we've gotten to the point (in this country where the people runnin the show USED to be for "smaller government") where no matter where you go, odds are you're being photographed.
The mall, the convenience store...hell, ANY store...driving down the street.
Welcome to the New World Order indeed.
*sigh*
Anyway...hey! BDMovie opens in FIFTEEN DAYS!!!!
"Take me, sir. Take me hard." - Zoe
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By reading this post you hereby irrevocably and unconditionally give and confirm to (me) and my successors licensees and assigns all consents and waivers (including a waiver of moral rights) required pursuant to any laws in any jurisdiction to enable (me) to exploit obtained Materials as intended (by me) in accordance with this agreement. You hereby release me from any and all claims and demands arising out of or in connection with such use including, without limitation, any and all claims for invasion of privacy, infringement of your right of publicity, defamation and any and other personal and/or property rights. You hereby indemnify and hold me fully indemnified from and against all actions, proceedings, costs, claims, damages and demands howsoever arising in respect of any actual or alleged breach or non-performance by you or your agreements contained herein.
This letter shall also serve to confirm that you have the authority to grant the right to use your name & likeness, email accounts, credit cards, bank accounts and funds containe therein and exercise of such rights shall not violate or infringe any rights of whatsoever nature of any third party.
Yours sincerely,
Wibbles
Nope, I dont see any problem with assuming that people have agreed to a contract....without having to sign anything...or even acknowledging its existance. Seems legit to me.
BTW...everyone you have all just agreed that I am allowed to use your credit cards...happy days.
Yes. The law is pretty screwy and big corporations with large pockets will tend to win....Especially if everyone accepts "well what did you expect" as a justification for downright rude and exploitative actions. In this instance Universal is just going through the motions in order to provide us with some good viewing...good on em...I will buy their DVD..and wouldnt want rediculous legal requirements getting in the way of giving us good features of events not all were lucky enough to attend.
But really, if they are going to do such a poor job of the disclaimer thing...they shouldnt have attempted it at all..because in Australian law they are allowed to use our image etc without express permission if said film was taken in public with no expectation of privacy or renumeration (I think. Dont quote me on it...consult a lawyer).The letter signs away more rights than this, however, and is thus rather objectionable.
I guess we are all victims of Lawyers and legal paranoia..even the corporations.
What is scary is just how happy people seem that we can so easily be assumed to have signed our rights away...and in fact would hack on someone who objects to such a system.
By walking past the ID scanners on Ariel...you probably surrendered all rights to privacy and freedom to the Blue Sun corp. I can see why some of Serenity's crew were a little less than keen to be setting foot on that rock..... most people would wonder what the heck their problem was.
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life. (:~D
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