SPOILER! Wesley After Angel
POSTED BY: roguedemonhuntr8
UPDATED: Thursday, October 12, 2006 00:53
VIEWED: 14873
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
They could have signed contracts like Lilah's, but I see no reason to assume they did. And if they did, I'd reaaaaaaaaalllly like to hear what the writer's explanation for it is.
me too but it still would have been a good plot twist if they had signed contracts
-Laura
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Well, we disagree on that point. I would have a hard time accepting the characters' motivation for signing such contracts.
But I just read your profile and it says you haven't watched FIREFLY. Needless to say, everyone at this site would highly recommend it. If, since you enjoyed Joss' other shows, you try FIREFLY, you'll probably be glad you did.
In either case, welcome aboard.
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Quote:
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
Well, we disagree on that point. I would have a hard time accepting the characters' motivation for signing such contracts.
But I just read your profile and it says you haven't watched FIREFLY. Needless to say, everyone at this site would highly recommend it. If, since you enjoyed Joss' other shows, you try FIREFLY, you'll probably be glad you did.
I've been meaning to watch it but I haven't been able to find it on TV
-Laura
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It's currently being shown on the SciFi network at 7:00 eastern time on Fridays. But that only helps you if you live in the U.S. and have access to cable T.V.
If you don't have access to SciFi, maybe you can rent it at a video store or online through Netflix or Blockbuster.
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Quote:
Originally posted by roguedemonhuntr8:
I've been meaning to watch it but I haven't been able to find it on TV-Laura
do you get the Sci-fi channel?
because they are running the show every Friday night 7pm Eastern/6pm Central time
and they'll do an extra Marathon of Firefly on Sept 27th
if you don't get Sci-fi, do you have netflix?
because they have the DVDs available!
if not can you talk to your local video rental?
they should get them, Firefly has been a top seller on Amazon for the last two years....
I can't believe you haven't seen Firefly!
PS I liked seeing the screencaps of those signitures, I'm sure those meant something because they both look so different and they went to the trouble to get them into the shot...
Angel needed to wipe everyone's memories to reboot Connor's life, originally he thought he was the only one immune (but it turned out Eve was too). I don't think Angel asked to have their minds wiped, but it did prevent pesky questions and arguments.
---------------------------
oops sorry, I took so long responding Batmarlowe had already posted
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kk,thnx
-Laura
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If Angel didn't ask to have their memories wiped (Wes accuses him of it and he doesn't deny it), then W&H must have insisted on it. Why would they? The only people who needed to have their memories distorted were Connor, his new family and people they knew. I don't see why everyone needed their memories wiped to reboot Connor's life.
I guess ultimately it doesn't matter because it gets undone anyway, and on top of that the show's over, so it's all academic. And just my opinion to boot.
But I still think it was unnecessary and begs a lot of question as to what they could remember from seasons 3 and 4 if they all think Connor never existed. 'Cause starting from the moment they see a pregnant Darla, the existence of Connor affects virtually everything from seasons 3 and 4.
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Batmarlowe: I think my POV is just that at the end of S4 I didn't see Angel's concern as being that he wanted to wipe anyone's memories...
the only motivation I saw was that he wanted Conner to have a different life.
I assume it was all or nothing at all (the magic mojo).
Just as EVERYONE remembered Dawn growing up with her family even tho she didn't exisit until S5 of BtVS.
You can't (I am assuming) have some people know/remember one reality and others know a different reality.
But it does create all kinds of plot holes,
just as Dawn's appearance did...
it is unavoidable when you 'rewrite' the universe.
I never blamed Wesley for his anger at having his memory altered, I just never thought that that was Angel's objective, but just a side effect.
Of course all discussion is academic. It is like the thread about why some vampires are stronger than others...it might be interesting to debate, but it isn't important. It isn't the point of the story. It doesn't even effect what you get out of the story.
Like the science in Firefly, that is the least important aspect of the show...IMO
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I just spent a long time writing a response to your last post. And then my internet provider lost it for me. Let me try again. I'll try and boil it down.
You're saying neither Angel nor W&H wanted a memory wipe, it was just the repercussion of the magic used. I can accept that. Pretty much. Why didn't it affect Angel? It's okay. I can still accept it.
You can have some people know/remember one reality while others know a different one. Angel and Eve know about Connor while everyone else does not.
Did Buffy tell all the Scoobies about Dawn, or are Buffy, Giles, Joyce, and Dawn the only ones who know? I've forgotten.
Here's the biggie but I'm really paring down from what I wrote earlier. Dawn is about inclusion. Connor is about exclusion.
Continuity on BUFFY was not affected by saying Buffy had a little sister all along. Nothing that happened in BUFFY 1-4 would have been affected in a major or maybe even minor way because Dawn was retroactively there. I can't think of any plot holes that were created by the retroactive Dawn placement. Not saying there weren't any, but nothing springs to mind.
Continuity is murdered by removing Connor from Seasons 3 and 4 of Angel. What is the reality of those two years for the rest of Angel, Inc.? Is it the same minus Connor? Virtually everything in 3 and 4 is connected to Connor. There must be (and I'd have to rewatch ANGEL S5 to get the specifics) dozens of things Fred, Gunn, Lorne, and Wes wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't have done, thought, said, or known if they were unaware of Connor existence.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if you just remove Darla's pregancy from their memories and then rewrite 'em so they think Cordy's pregancy was demonic (wouldn't be the first time that happened), then all the other occurrences in 3 and 4 would make sense.
That above paragraph was not in the first version.
So now I'll really have to rewatch 3, 4, and 5 to see if I out-argued myself.
Back to the original:
In any case I think it was a bad idea for Joss and Co. to go there. It really upsets the apple cart of continuity.
Or not.
Still don't like it. I don't see what Joss and Co. gained by not having the gang remember Connor.
I'll shut up now.
Remember this is the SHORT version.
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I think that the mind wipe achieved two things, story-wise:
1) It created a nice symmetry with Wesley not believing he can trust Angel, therefore bringing back the memory of his betrayl of Angel. This also tied into the end-of-season-5 arc of Angel's willingness to compromise and cede ground that a champion shouldn't.
2) It allowed them to make Connor less of an insufferable shit.
So, that's not so bad. I don't think it was ever meant to last long, just long enough to cause tension within the group, esp. Wes and Angel. I am interested as to what the fake memories entailed, since there were definitely elements of the previous 2 years they remember.
"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann
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