Browncoat Responsibility
POSTED BY: nxojkt
UPDATED: Monday, August 29, 2005 16:28
VIEWED: 20794
PAGE 5 of 6
Alright - everybody go watch an ep of Firefly right now! Or read one of the comics or a chapter from Finding Serenity... and for God's sake somebody wake up Zoid...
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net
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I decided I had to post here, then I'll be sure to watch an episode. :)
Personally I agree with NXOJKT, and I think that 1% of people acting out of hand, could ruin all of our reputation, and ultimately cause the movie and cast to suffer the consequences. And some of you say, well those 1% are never gonna learn, is that the kind of attitude that Firefly has taught you? I have always felt, and Firefly has also supported this feeling, that you do what you feel is right, even if it seems like a lost cause. And I know that sending hate mail because the shipping was slow, or threatening theatre owners is wrong no matter how over blown it is now, or what the circumstances were. I also know that I may be in the situation where I would send hate mail to someone, but reading a post like this and seeing how my actions affect peopel would probably cause me to reconsider.
I understand not everyone feels this way, and I respect that, but I would just like to know, how is acting negative to people, who have the potential to spread good word about Serenity (which would aso help with the money thing, since some people say thats all that matters), going to help? I really want to know that, maybe its because your mad at you just want to do something, then go punch a pillow (lol) or something else thats harmless and where you can release your anger. :)
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Quote:
First, some of you may not know that this identical thread appeared on the Univ Board at the same time Nxojkt started it here on FFF.
At the time Nxojkt started these threads, three similar discussions on the Univ Board were being "locked down" by Serenity_Leader (Universal's rep and board moderator) with a plea to let the whole matter rest; she asked that the whole discussion be dropped. But as you can see, Nxojkt felt otherwise. According to her Universal profile, it appears that Nxojkt has only posted 3 times on that board since September 2004. That's only one post until s/he felt the overwhelming compulsion to circumvent Serenity_Leader's attempts to stop the bad feelings being generated by this topic.
Look at the first line of Nxojkt post, people, and you should recognize this thread for what it is: Somebody keeping the argument going for purposes of his or her own. By stating, "I'm sure I'll take some heat for this..." the author telegraphs her intention to stir the pot.
Look at the lengthy posts s/he devotes to defending herself and putting down any difference of opinion from other Browncoats. Yup, that's really turning the other cheek and making a plea for peace.
Trolls don't always growl and snarl and attack you from the front. Sometimes they come wearing the sanctimonious robes of a martyr, speaking in the calm tones of moral authority, and covering themselves with a cloak of virtue.
The mirror "Browncoat Responsibility" thread is now buried in the underpages of the Universal Board. I say, let it die a quiet death here and let's stop this fractious Browncoat-on-Browncoat blaming session.
Wow... you really did take this thing personally.
Yep, I posted the same post on the Universal board. I do so at the request a people here. Look at the first few repsonses to my post, and you'll see suggestions to do so. You'll also see me affirm that I did so... so I don't think it's a secret that I posted it there.
I've only posted over there 3 times, you're right. That should tell you that I don't visit there that often (just don't like it as much). If I don't visit there, then I probably wouldn't have seen other posts saying the same thing, and wouldn't have known that the board moderator had asked for it to be dropped. I'd have disagreed with the moderator there, but...
You claim that I am putting down other posters' difference of opinion. I've been very careful not to do so. In fact, I've clearly said that I respect other people's opinions, and only ask that they respect mine.
I'm not being a martyr because I'm not taking blame for anyone else's actions, and I'm not sacrificing myself for anything.
I'm sorry that you think I have some hidden agenda. I guess it's tough to tell people's true intentions on the internet. But my intentions here were simply to ask people to think about their actions before they act on behalf of browncoats. And I just don't see why that makes me sanctimonious, a martyr, or a jerk.
If you want this thread to die, then let it die. Don't read it. But the same way that you thought it was in poor taste for me to ask browncoats to think before they act, I think it's in poor taste to tell browncoats what they should and shouldn't talk about it. Some of us think this is important... you don't. It's a difference of opinion. I respect your right not to talk about. But I'm not going to search the internet for your history of posts... I'm just going to keep talking to the people who want to talk about it. If no one does, then that's fine, I'm not going to keep talking just to hear myself talk.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diz:
My point is, the tarnishing of our rep is happening in very small circles. Like, tiny. AICN might be a huge site to the fanboys, but to the general movie-going public, not so much. And even the fanboys who frequent AICN know it's a troll pit. We have a huge supporter over there in Herc, and don't think for a moment Serenity won't get huge coverage on AICN the closer we get to release. But I digress.
I understand where you are coming from, but I guess where I am having problems is that I see blame and finger-pointing, rather then building up. If the message truly is, "Browncoats act civil", then I think one of the first things we should be doing is forgiving and forgetting. It is so easy to Monday-quarterback what happened, but while it was happening (the original post was up for almost a week before it all blew up), not one person stepped in and said, "this here might not be a great idea, remember what happened to Nathan?" Now I know this isn't quite fair. I've read posts on the BC board for calls to action because some reporter got something wrong in a writeup, and rolled my eyes mightily. Perhaps I should've posted my thoughts on how it's not such a great idea to flood small town newspaper reporters email boxes with hate mail. My failing. And I didn't do it with this post because I felt they winners were justified in their anger, and as someone who submitted an entry myself, I wanted to support them. So I sent one short, polite email. No one had any idea what would happen; I think if they did, things would've gone a different way.
My point in this is not so much turn the other cheek and hope it all goes away. Rather, recognize that in any fandom, you have zealots. And, according to the public, ALL fandoms are filled to the brim with freaks. I mean, if we REALLY didn't want to turn off the general public, then perhaps we shouldn't be wearing goofy orange knit hats, Chinese dresses and combat boots, and carrying parasols to opening day. 'Cause nothing scares the public like cosplay! I'm kidding, of course (well, except it does scare them). But there is a point: Who cares what the general public thinks of us geeky fans? It won't make a difference to the box office. It won't, I promise. Did it make a difference to Star Wars? Lord of the Rings? Any of the successful comicbook movies? A good movie is a good movie, and ours will stand on it's own, no matter what people think of our fandom.
That said, I hate for us to be lumped together because of the actions of a few nutjobs. So, to come back around to what you're saying, I kinda agree, said as much in another thread, but I have decided not to let the actions of a few whacks bother me. My main concern now is restoring the peace around here, and hoping all the ill will fades. Firefly and Serenity boards are my oasis in a busy, hectic life. I've been involved in fandoms before (anime and comics; you think OUR fandom has issues-- we're mere babes-in-baskets compared to those fandoms), and this has been the best fan experience I've ever had. I just hope I'm not deluding myself that it can stay that way.
*if none of this makes sense, it's because it's 3am now, and I should be in bed. :)
**edited for clarity. It all makes sense now, hee! (yeah right; off to bed, Diz)
Sorry for editing your post, I don't know if it's proper etiquette here or not.
Yes, currently the bad press is limited to a few small circles. And if that's where it stays, then we'll all be fine. But I've seen things escalate over the course of the last few months, and that worries me.
In the 1980s there was a little bad press about how weird the kids who play Dungeons and Dragons were, but nobody thought much about it. Then a couple of kids took their action into the streets and robbed a couple of stores. Then a couple of kids got overly distraught about their characters having been killed, and they killed themselves. Next thing you know... all D&D was labeled bad, and all people who played D&D were lumped together as freaks. My mother, who
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Hmm...I respect the truth of what you're saying, but I guess I wonder if these incidents are really all that indicative of the majority of us Browncoats. You paint it almost as though we've changed from what we were, but I'm not sure that's truth. You've got to keep in mind that Browncoats are a group of people, and just like any other group of people we all have different ideas about how to act and what exactly it means to be 'responsible'. There are always going to be those who want to go on the attack and cause trouble. It's inevitable. Every group of people has some like that.
Firefly is an amazing show, but I doubt very much that it's changed the above facts.
All that said--I agree with you. People _should_ think before they act.
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Hello again. Had sleep. We'll see if that makes me any more lucent and less wandering in my points. :)
A couple of more things. First, when I say "ill will", I am not necessarily talking about you and your posts. I am speaking more in general. After the Big Blow Up, I saw quite a few angry posts aimed at folks who, while not completely blameless, did not deserve the condemnations that were thrown around. I've been involved in this situation from the beginning, and trust me: we were all surprised to see how quickly it spun out of control. I believe most, if not all, of the winners acted on the up-and-up. I've seen a couple of them around the boards, and one of them belongs to my Browncoat group. I felt really awful for what people were saying about them on the boards, and many of those folks did not know the full story. It was a tempest-in-a-teapot, really. I've said about 12 dozen times, I do not condone sending threatening emails to anyone, but I also believe the email sent to the winners was way out of line... and I am rehashing this. Sorry. I am just trying to make it clear where I am coming from.
And while I agree with FFSuzie on a few of her points, I am not with her on your intentions. I do believe your intentions are good; but then, so were mine when I sent the Sanchezes an email. 
My comments on cosplay were tongue-in-cheek. I cosplay myself, and will be wearing said Chinese dress/combat boots combo on opening day. But I think you give the general public too much credit if you think they think it's acceptable thing. The reason the press covers it is because they all like to point out the freaks. 
As far as D&D goes, it's always had the whiff of the occult about it, and that really freaks some people out. Role playing in general scares some of the Norms because it involves magic and witches and other such things. Fans of TV shows or movies tend to be viewed as pretty harmless goof-balls (even fans of shows like BUFFY, which is steeped in the occult). Now if people start to beat up others in the name of Serenity, that might change, but I don't really see that happening. I don't see our fans being any worse than Star Wars or Star Trek fans, so [shrug].
One last thing: if someone is deranged enough to beat up a theater patron for tickets, do you really think an appeal for good behavior will make them reconsider? Once again, I think we are just going to have to make peace with the fact that our fandom, as it grows, will have whacks. We can plead with them to show decorum, but whacks rarely listen. That's why they're whacks.
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OMG, this is like a disease. I've not posted so much in two months as much as I've posted in two days.
I just wanted to point out, on this very site, there is now a thread calling out a "reporter" (I use the term loosely) for saying Serenity is for people who can't follow a Star Trek episode, and proceeded to call the tagline "gay". All this from viewing only the trailer. People are bragging about the comments they are posting at the website. No one yet has warned them off, or reminded them they should remember they are representing Browncoats. Do you see how harmlessly this starts? The reporter is a complete tool, I think we can all agree. And right now, everyone is rah-rah, let's post our thoughts on that website about this tool. Many of the comments left were left after the whole blow up over the poster contest. The reporter and editor have responded a couple of times, and people are still posting thoughts. Seems to me like they are a bit taken aback at the fans who are posting.
And this is all going on despite the fact there is a news story right here, asking people to be thoughtful.
Not sure of my point, really. Just find it interesting, given the current climate, is all. Perhaps those of us involved in this debate have our blinders on so firmly that we haven't seen that this has already blown over, and lessons may or may not have been learned.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ax:
Hmm...I respect the truth of what you're saying, but I guess I wonder if these incidents are really all that indicative of the majority of us Browncoats. You paint it almost as though we've changed from what we were, but I'm not sure that's truth. You've got to keep in mind that Browncoats are a group of people, and just like any other group of people we all have different ideas about how to act and what exactly it means to be 'responsible'. There are always going to be those who want to go on the attack and cause trouble. It's inevitable. Every group of people has some like that.
Firefly is an amazing show, but I doubt very much that it's changed the above facts.
All that said--I agree with you. People _should_ think before they act.
That's my whole point - these incidents are not indicative of Browncoats as a whole. But when people represent themselves as Browncoats and do something stupid, it ends up reflecting on all of us. That's an unfortunate side effect of being a part of a passionate community.
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Whoa did I lose track of what we're arguing about.
Make love, not war!
PsychicRiver
"Two by two, hands of blue." 
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."
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Me - 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diz:
Hello again. Had sleep. We'll see if that makes me any more lucent and less wandering in my points. :)
A couple of more things. First, when I say "ill will", I am not necessarily talking about you and your posts. I am speaking more in general. After the Big Blow Up, I saw quite a few angry posts aimed at folks who, while not completely blameless, did not deserve the condemnations that were thrown around. I've been involved in this situation from the beginning, and trust me: we were all surprised to see how quickly it spun out of control. I believe most, if not all, of the winners acted on the up-and-up. I've seen a couple of them around the boards, and one of them belongs to my Browncoat group. I felt really awful for what people were saying about them on the boards, and many of those folks did not know the full story. It was a tempest-in-a-teapot, really. I've said about 12 dozen times, I do not condone sending threatening emails to anyone, but I also believe the email sent to the winners was way out of line... and I am rehashing this. Sorry. I am just trying to make it clear where I am coming from.
And while I agree with FFSuzie on a few of her points, I am not with her on your intentions. I do believe your intentions are good; but then, so were mine when I sent the Sanchezes an email.
My comments on cosplay were tongue-in-cheek. I cosplay myself, and will be wearing said Chinese dress/combat boots combo on opening day. But I think you give the general public too much credit if you think they think it's acceptable thing. The reason the press covers it is because they all like to point out the freaks.
As far as D&D goes, it's always had the whiff of the occult about it, and that really freaks some people out. Role playing in general scares some of the Norms because it involves magic and witches and other such things. Fans of TV shows or movies tend to be viewed as pretty harmless goof-balls (even fans of shows like BUFFY, which is steeped in the occult). Now if people start to beat up others in the name of Serenity, that might change, but I don't really see that happening. I don't see our fans being any worse than Star Wars or Star Trek fans, so [shrug].
One last thing: if someone is deranged enough to beat up a theater patron for tickets, do you really think an appeal for good behavior will make them reconsider? Once again, I think we are just going to have to make peace with the fact that our fandom, as it grows, will have whacks. We can plead with them to show decorum, but whacks rarely listen. That's why they're whacks.
It sounds like you and I are pretty close to agreement on this issue. If it seemed as though I was placing blame, then I apologize. Certainly the e-mail sent by the Sanchezes was ridiculous, and their response on their site was even worse.
Your next post down talked about an event that is indicative of what I'm talking about. I guess it was naive of me to think that posting what I posted would make a difference, but I thought it was worth a shot.
At the moment, no, I don't think we are any worse than Star Wars or Star Trek people. But I also know that we could get that way quickly. And regardless of that, shouldn't be at least aspire to be better? Shouldn't we try to be the one fan base that gets it right? Unlike most fan bases, the people we admire appear to want to make themselves accesible to us. They want to have a relationship with their fans. Lucas doesn't do the Con circuit... neither does Mark Hamill (Harrison Ford is a bit large for that). But we see Joss and Nathan and the rest of the crew making the circuit, taking time out of their schedules to be accesible for us. And every story that you hear of a Browncoat meeting a BDH is a positive one. Don't we owe that back to Joss and the gang? Don't we owe them to at least try to conduct ourselves in a proper way when representing ourselves as their fans?
Sure, there will always be idiots who do stupid things, and no amount of pleading is going to help.
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