Browncoat Responsibility
POSTED BY: nxojkt
UPDATED: Monday, August 29, 2005 16:28
VIEWED: 20794
PAGE 3 of 6
I completely agree, NXOJKT, with everything you've said. I think it's clear that you're not lecturing other browncoats or setting dictatorial guidelines - you're simply asking those who are being unreasonable to think about the consequences their actions have. I've been upset by the last few incidents too, and I'm glad you stood up and said something.
We're all actually working towards the same goal here, it's just hard to see that right now.
Julia
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This is where we separate the Browncoats from the Fanboys. We're here to celebrate Serenity, not to complain about everything and use the power inherent in our community to bitch about an inconvenience! It's abuse of our fandom. What we're about is Serenity, and Serenity is about family and doing what's right. We're all here because for whatever reason, Firefly touched us in a very deep way. Now we have a movie, an RPG game, a comic book series, a book... and lots more to come. Whether or not some web page disses us, we have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty. Even if the movie flops and all we have worked for is gone, we still have each other. Let's not degrade what our community into a bunch of fanboys. We want to draw comparisons to Trekkies, not to whiny Nintendo Fanboys (I am a Nintendo fan, but if you ever go onto video game boards, you'll see what I'm referring to). Anger to me is what defines the fanboy from the fan, if you've ever gotten into an argument (not a light hearted debate) about some aspect of Firefly or a continuity question in the movie, you're a fanboy and you need to get over yourself. It's just a movie folks, and we're all here for fun.
So GIVE IT A FREAKING REST ALREADY!
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If it doesn't matter who was to blame in the internet contest incident, then can we stop boiling it down to half-truths and thinly-veiled blame? There was so much more to the incident then a company not shipping a "free" prize to winners the next day. If people are going to keep putting that way, making the winners sound like spoiled brats stomping their feet and demanding Browncoats fight the power (which is not at all what happened), then all that will serve to do is fan the flames some are trying to put out. JMO.
Most of the threads over at the OB have been locked--good. Right now, they only people keeping this going are the people who are continuing to debate this topic. Myself included; I recognize the irony.
As for what happened last night, you have to expect some people would be cheesed off. However, from the beginning of the blow up, most everyone has been advocating cool heads and restraint. I was one of the first people who responded after the email had been posted, and I asked people to halt any actions they may be thinking of doing; many others have concurred. So it's less a matter of what is happening now, and more a matter of learning from this mistake.
What happened sucked. But it's over. Can we just move on? Forget who is right, who is wrong, and just get on with being Browncoats? It's this kind of thing that will continue the divide in the fandom. We don't need to be advised en masse on the Proper Browncoat Behavior. As FFSuzie said, the vast majority of us have level heads. And as someone who has been vocal on this subject (while also advocating ignoring the Sanchezs and their website), I feel that at least a part of this post is aimed at me.
This is a fandom made up of individuals. No matter what we do, what we advise, there will still be people who think threatening a theater manager is the best way to get a ticket, or sending hate-mail to a website over small issue is the way to get things done. We cannot control what these people do. And they will keep doing it. If we get our nose bent out of shape over every incident like this (admittedly, this seems like a big blow up, but in the grand scheme of things, I think it's minor), all we will serve to do is fracture the fanbase. If we let the actions of these few crack-pots bother us to the degree that we are ashamed of being Browncoats, we are allowing them to rob us of all that is great about this fandom: the generous spirit, welcoming and inclusive nature, and smart, funny people.
So, we have a choice. Drop the current issue and make nice with our fellow fans, or keep dragging this out. At this point, we are only hurting ourselves. Let's rise above this, and just drop it.
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Yes. Lets all write an letter to Fox thanking them for cancelling the show. We don't want to be perceived as being anything other than castrated.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diz:
If it doesn't matter who was to blame in the internet contest incident, then can we stop boiling it down to half-truths and thinly-veiled blame? There was so much more to the incident then a company not shipping a "free" prize to winners the next day. If people are going to keep putting that way, making the winners sound like spoiled brats stomping their feet and demanding Browncoats fight the power (which is not at all what happened), then all that will serve to do is fan the flames some are trying to put out. JMO.
Most of the threads over at the OB have been locked--good. Right now, they only people keeping this going are the people who are continuing to debate this topic. Myself included; I recognize the irony.
As for what happened last night, you have to expect some people would be cheesed off. However, from the beginning of the blow up, most everyone has been advocating cool heads and restraint. I was one of the first people who responded after the email had been posted, and I asked people to halt any actions they may be thinking of doing; many others have concurred. So it's less a matter of what is happening now, and more a matter of learning from this mistake.
What happened sucked. But it's over. Can we just move on? Forget who is right, who is wrong, and just get on with being Browncoats? It's this kind of thing that will continue the divide in the fandom. We don't need to be advised en masse on the Proper Browncoat Behavior. As FFSuzie said, the vast majority of us have level heads. And as someone who has been vocal on this subject (while also advocating ignoring the Sanchezs and their website), I feel that at least a part of this post is aimed at me.
This is a fandom made up of individuals. No matter what we do, what we advise, there will still be people who think threatening a theater manager is the best way to get a ticket, or sending hate-mail to a website over small issue is the way to get things done. We cannot control what these people do. And they will keep doing it. If we get our nose bent out of shape over every incident like this (admittedly, this seems like a big blow up, but in the grand scheme of things, I think it's minor), all we will serve to do is fracture the fanbase. If we let the actions of these few crack-pots bother us to the degree that we are ashamed of being Browncoats, we are allowing them to rob us of all that is great about this fandom: the generous spirit, welcoming and inclusive nature, and smart, funny people.
So, we have a choice. Drop the current issue and make nice with our fellow fans, or keep dragging this out. At this point, we are only hurting ourselves. Let's rise above this, and just drop it.
It's very easy to turn the other cheek and smile and be nice. I was insulted by FFSuzie earlier in this thread, and I did just that, turned the other cheek. But when portions of our fan base are going out of their way to represent our fan base in a negative way, we shouldn't just sit back and let it happen.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things, this was a minor incident... so was the thing with Nathan and the comic book store... so was a couple of idiots threatening a theatre manager. But you put the three together along with the fact that it seems as though in any talkback forum on a movie site every time that someone says something bad about Firefly or Joss there is a war of words, and a pattern forms. We're getting a reputation outside of our community of being anything but, as you put it "the generous spirit, welcoming and inclusive nature, and smart, funny people." We're getting the reputation of being bullies, idiots, and fanatics. We're being compared to scientologists.
This type of stuff is very off-putting. And to people who might be on the fence about seeing Serenity, we can't afford that... not if want to see this story continue. Getting bad press on sites like IESB.net and aintitcoolnews.com is the easiest way to lose the "on the fence" people. And it's likely that those people could be the d
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It is disheartening when you are a happy part of a community, where a small few take things to the extreme and suddenly you're branded with labels and negative imagery (sounds pretty familiar on a world stage eh)
But in all honesty, my main concern would not be for 'Browncoats', they know what firefly is, how great it is and how great Browncoats are in general (in my experience here at fff.net).
Whereas if people who have not experienced it before, start hearing negative things about the community, suddenly firefly becomes some taboo show. Its how it works with everything I spose, "Oh the people that watch Star Trek (or whatever) are supposed to be nerds. Therefore Im not going to bother trying to enjoy it."
In the end the public aren't going to care about 'the other side of the story' (the browncoat side). It only takes a little thing on the internet to blow up into something massive.
I don't think NXOJKT is out of line. He (or she I dunno) just wants to make sure that the show and movie he enjoys aren't going to be spoiled over something silly. Those who are responding with anger or sarcasm rather then debate what he is saying are only validating the need to talk about it.
__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...
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Almost hate to say it, but I am with Fire and Infra on this one.
While not exactly excusing the behavior of TWO, repeat TWO people who apparently got out of hand, asking the rest of us to throw ourselves in the dirt and grovel is a bit damned much, I think.
Acting like a decent human being is one thing, and to be frank 99% of the folks on this board do, and always have done this.
That remainin 1% isn't something you can ever do anything about, in any society, and asking the rest of us to prostrate ourselves and beg forgiveness for that 1% is downright insultin.
Infra also makes a good point, one I made *prior* to the series cancellation - playing 'nice' is just begging for it from some people/companies, as history has quite shown us....
HOWEVER, one doesn't have to be a petty, childish jerk about it neither - and lemme be honest with you, we ain't.
Look at all the good works folks at this site have done, and continue to do in the name of the series and general decency ?
A lotta folks, especially on the internet, do not WANT to see cultures or fandoms as stand-up folks, and will find whatever flaws they can to excuse their own ego-fed nastiness, and appeasing them is a downright stupid thing to do, because it begs them to stoop to even lower tactics..
(Which you're ready for Haken, I hope, you know as well as I do exactly what they are...)
Yes, we have a responsibility to conduct ourselves as decent folk, but we do NOT have a responsibility to abase ourselves in 'apology' for folk who do not, and those unwilling to seperate that 1% of jerkishness from the 99% of decency because they WANT to see the jerkishness?
Why the hell should I care what the opinion of those people is ? we're not going to change it no matter what we do anyhow, so asking us to suck up to them is both pointless and insulting.
They don't like the show ? fine.
They don't like the movie? fine.
They don't like me? no problem.
They chose to hate the entirety of a downright cordial community because of one jerk ? that is THEIR problem, not mine - and trying to make it mine is something I just ain't gonna take, not from nobody.
Clear ?
-Frem
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Fremdfirma I do agree with you but it would be bad if things got extremely out of hand and it compromises the future for firefly and Serenity? (granted it would take something bigger than what has occurred)
Anyway if there does come a time when there's some larger injustice being done people can respond through positive channels and not be jackasses (not talking about anyone in particular i'm just saying)
I don't think what has happened is a major thorn in the side of Browncoats, like most people have said I've never heard of this website before. In the future I guess people should be strong and firm but not threatening and mean. Whether or not they do I can't stop them and like you said not much anyoen can say could change that, but in the end they will spoil it for themselves.
__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...
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NXOJKT,
This is one member of the Browncoats choir you don't have to preach to.
When all this happened on the OB, I posted a few things about trying to be civil, maintain an even strain, etc., and was basically ignored by the people who were so outraged about a little thing, that they couldn't see the damage they were doing. It's a good thing those threads have been locked over there, and I certainly hope that the Browncoat family can be levelheaded about this kind of stuff, and even a bit Zen-like in their demeanor. Perhaps some reading of Sun-Tzu might be in order.:)
All it takes are just a few hidden "reavers" in the Browncoats to bring us all down. And right now, with the movie coming out soon, we need all the "Positive Vibes" we can get.
Kevn
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
While not exactly excusing the behavior of TWO, repeat TWO people who apparently got out of hand, asking the rest of us to throw ourselves in the dirt and grovel is a bit damned much, I think.
When did I ask that? When did I ask anyone to grovel? When to ask anyone to take responsibility for the actions of others?
My post asked people to recognize that their own actions reflect upon the whole community. That's not asking anyone to lay down and take it when something bad happens to them. That's not asking anyone to raise their hands and say, "I did it" when someone else did.
In fact, that's the exact opposite. To the outside world, when one person does something stupid, we all get that label. I'm not arguing that it's right that we all get labeled because 2 or 12 or 200 people do something stupid. But "the Legion of Whedon" (as we were called negatively on one site) has been compared to Scientologist because a few people have decided to make it their mission to refute every single negative thing about Firefly, Serenity, and all things Joss.
I agree with the last part of your post. It's fine with me if people don't like Serenity. It's fine with me if people don't like me. But don't label me, and don't label all of the people that share my same passion because a handful of those people do something stupid. And that is what is happening. People are giving us all this label of being overly fanatical bullies... and that's not true.
I think, for the most part, we do meet the standard of friendliness that welcomes people - as Diz pointed out. Unfortunately we're all getting the negative label because of the actions of a few.
Again, I'm not asking you or me or anyone else to take responsibility for anything that anyone else does. I'm asking the exact opposite. I'm asking that you take responsibility for the things that you do, and that I take responsiblity for the things that I do, and that each individual take responsibility for the things that do -- that's good advice in general, but for the sake of this argument, I'm saying that it is important that when we're flying the Browncoat flag, and doing something on behalf of Serenity (Browncoats), that like it or not, what we do will reflect on other Browncoats, and ultimately on the whole Firefly/Serenity community.
If you go see your local theatre manager about promoting Serenity, there are two ways you could go about it.
1) Go in very prepared and present what it is that you and your fellow browncoats can do to help drum up business for his/her theatre. Talk about how you'd like to work with his staff to bring people out to see this movie that you love.
In that scenario, the theatre GM is likely to have a good impression of you as an individual, and in turn, because you were representing browncoats, he'll have a good impression of browncoats.
2) You walk up to the theatre manager and ask, "Why in the hell aren't you doing more to promote Serenity?! If you don't do more, me and my fellow browncoats will go see the movie at the theatre across town."
In that scenario, the theatre GM is likely to think, "these browncoats are assholes, and I don't care if they go across town."
The IESB.net scenario spells this out perfectly. The Sanchezes had been supportive of Serenity. But because a handful of people, in their eyes were rude to them (whether justified or not), they decided to brand all browncoats worthy of the treatment of the ones that they wanted to get back at. Positive coverage gone, and negative coverage begins. It was stupid on their part, but it still happened.
And that's my point... if we all take responsibility for our own actions and spend this next 5 weeks trying to represent browncoats in the best possible way, then we can hopefully make a difference. Joss himself told us at the screenings that a lot of the success of this movie rides on our shoulders. So we all need to do our part, and part of doing our part is to just represent browncoats in a positive way when we'r
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