The Message

POSTED BY: GuerillaTheatre
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 04:03
VIEWED: 8087
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NIKNAK

Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:15 PM

Firefly is far too new to fairly compare it to five hundred year old plays. It needs at least a hundred years before we can make a balanced judgement on whether Shakespeare is as actually as good as Firefly .

REALLYKAYLEE

Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:31 PM

silly fan-- shakespeare isn't in old english! :)! (i hate smiley faces but need you to know that i'm in jest!)
perididdle-- me tooooo! at camp we were sharing life changing experiences and i had to tell about R+J wishbone . . . more than a little embarassing. (luckily most everyone had a similar experience!)
guerrilatheatre-- examples? please? the one overpowering moment for me was the similarities between the bad guy in heart of gold and angelo from measure for measure. i know their totally different but think about it . . .
did i mention how terrific it is to find people who like shakespeare AND firefly outside of my tight community?
oh . . . i'm making this more about shakespeare than the message (i repent gt) but does "they do not love that do not show their love" affect firefly at all? i have always believed that this premise was central to the kaylee school of thought.
tracey=mercutio? hmm. . .
i'm going to do work now. history work. islam and the spice wars work. wishing it had more to do with firefly work.

GUERILLATHEATRE

Sunday, August 21, 2005 11:33 PM

One recurring Shakespearean theme in Firefly and in Joss Whedon's other work with Buffy and Angel is the sense of heroic duty thrust upon unlikely characters. Shakespeare borrowed this from the Greek playwrites and others have also sampled it.

Take, for example, the character of Buffy Summers. She's a female representation of Hamlet. She's a party girl going through life on easy street before she has the incredible supernatural duty dropped on her shoulders. She has to save the world the same way as Hamlet has to save Denmarck.

The Buffy/Angel story arc is certainly Romeo and Juliet retold.

Giles is very similar to Prospero in The Tempest. Especially in his latter seasons on the show as he deals with Buffy growing up and not needing him anymore in the same way as Prospero deals with aging and the world passing him by.

Sorry to go off on Buffy but I'm more familiar with that show than Firefly. I'm going through these episodes for the first time and haven't had the time to really analyze them. These examples are also the very obvious ones. There are certainly others that are more obfuscated such as the similarities both Spike and Angel share with Shylock from the Merchant of Venice. Tragic characters of circumstance...truly beasts, demons even...but with slivers of hidden humanity.

REALLYKAYLEE

Monday, August 22, 2005 1:46 AM

shiny. i was familiar with the shakespeare char. but none of the buffy ones. i never thought i'd like the show (but then i never intended to like firefly) but those char. sound awesome. maybe i'll give 'em a shot.
oh, and i used a bit of the 'a future in the past' theme in a paper on Ishmael by daniel quinn. hope you don't mind! *holds breath* :)

CARBONEL

Thursday, September 1, 2005 10:52 AM

This episode isn't my #1 (due in part to a gnawing plot thing - why didn't they just TELL him they had a plan?) but it is in my top few.

Why there isn’t a plot hole in ‘The Message’

I’m fairly new to Firefly and just getting to grips with the online community. But I’ve seen a few people complain about the glaring plot hole in ‘The Message’ and just want to throw in my twopenn’th.

This annoyed me too the first time through, but when I watched the episode again (and again) it struck me that there are good reasons why Mal never says ‘Hang on a minute Tracey – we’re not going to turn you over’, and they’re all to do with Mal’s character and how he runs the ship.

We already know how much emphasis Mal places on military discipline and unquestioning loyalty. This isn’t the first time that we’ve seen Mal operate in such a highhanded fashion. For example, in ‘Bushwacked’ he orders Simon to bring River down to the Cargo bay without explaining that he has a plan to keep them both safe from the Feds.

In fact there are strong parallels between Simon and Tracey throughout. In ‘The Message’ Mal says that Tracey has brought all of his own problems down on Firefly. In ‘Serenity Part II’ he says pretty much exactly the same thing to Simon. In both cases Mal is unhappy with the situation, but it is clear that he will take on the responsibility. But there’s a clear trade – you make Mal responsible for your problems, and you have to accept that Mal is now in charge.

Difficulties arise when Tracey brings his problems to Mal, but then refuses to follow orders. Simon would have some excuses – he’s non-military, and he has no history with Mal. But Tracey should know better. In my opinion, Mal is genuinely perplexed by Tracey’s behaviour and, of course, angered. Tracey turns up out of the blue, carrying contraband goods and being chased by murderous Feds and then draws a gun on Mal and his crew? The first thought through Mal’s head is so not ‘Gosh, how can I reassure Tracey?’

DIETCOKE

Thursday, September 1, 2005 1:59 PM

I also have a degree in classical theater (acting) and I am also huge Shakespeare fan. My favorite authors are:

1. Shakespeare
2. Charles Dickens
3. J.R.R. Tolkien
4. Joss Whedon
5. Tennesse Williams

Joss' work is destined to become classic. Thank God! An author I like that is still alive.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

GROUNDED

Thursday, September 1, 2005 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Carbonel:
Difficulties arise when Tracey brings his problems to Mal, but then refuses to follow orders. Simon would have some excuses – he’s non-military, and he has no history with Mal. But Tracey should know better. In my opinion, Mal is genuinely perplexed by Tracey’s behaviour and, of course, angered. Tracey turns up out of the blue, carrying contraband goods and being chased by murderous Feds and then draws a gun on Mal and his crew? The first thought through Mal’s head is so not ‘Gosh, how can I reassure Tracey?’

No the first thought in Mal's head is 'How can I protect my crew?'. In this case, the only sensible thing is to tell Tracey the plan.

ZEEK

Thursday, September 1, 2005 5:03 PM

I thought the plot all around was a big mistake.

Not telling Tracey the plan was bad enough. There's also the problem of the organ smuggling. Are they somehow saying that Tracy's organs are able to be preserved and waiting for him wherever he's headed to be put back in when they scoop out the special ones? Even if that were true then his "better offer" wouldn't have his old organs and would mean that he's gonna die for this "better offer"? It's all around dumb.

It's near the bottom of my favorite firefly episodes.

CARBONEL

Thursday, September 1, 2005 5:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:

No the first thought in Mal's head is 'How can I protect my crew?'. In this case, the only sensible thing is to tell Tracey the plan.

I don't disagree that the first thought in Mal's head [BOLD] ought [BOLD] to be 'How can I protect my crew?' but the fact is that it really doesn't appear to be. He tells Wash to make the call - and Wash ends up getting shot. And I would argue that that is (1) because Mal really doesn't believe that Tracey will actually shoot, and (2)because Mal is focused on the challenge to his authority, not the safety of him and his crew.

Mal's (in my opinion, chilling) words are 'You mailed your ugly business to Zoe and me, Tracey, cash-on-delivery. I'll go to Hell before I watch you turn and bite us for the favor --' In other words, Mal is prepared to be shot sooner than back down. And for Mal, explaining the underlying plan [BOLD] would [BOLD] constitute backing down.

I'd have to add that I'm not a 'defend Joss at all costs' person - I think that there have been glaring plot holes in some episodes on all his shows. I just think that, the more I look at it, 'The Message' isn't one of them. I think that what this interaction in 'The Message' tells us is that Mal's code of honour and his focus on being in control (which often seem so cool) is sometimes problematic.

RIJPE

Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:29 PM

I absolutely love "The Message" as long as I don't think about the plot holes too much.

If anyone can come up with a remotely plausible way that the organ smuggling thing was going to work, I would be most greatful. I desperately want the episode to make sense, and am willing to do a fair bit of "suspension of disbelief."

For instance, I'm willing to start with -- "Okay, so high-paying patients will only accept perfect quality organs, and the only way to keep organs in this perfect condition is to keep them working in a human body. However, the Alliance is capable of scooping Tracey's organs out, transporting them and keeping them usable -- they aren't in perfect shape after they are restored, and Tracey perhaps loses 5 years off of his life."

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