The Yin and Yang of it all: Class, be seated.
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, May 27, 2024 15:25
VIEWED: 3714
PAGE 4 of 4
Since we're bein' all plain about it, I was born the year before the first dude went up into space.
Yeah, it's kinda interesting when a conservative has an open mind (or when a liberal has a closed one 
:).
Even more interesting when a Limbaugh fan has a mind Chrisisall
EDIT: Ooops! I'm losing my 'balance' again...
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Thanks for the link, Goldwater was a doozy, all right. I liked him best in the 80's, where he was hard to predict.
We need more conservatives like that.Quote:
I'm 41, Chris. And I agree about the 80's. His political philosophy really matured when he saw how badly his ideas could be twisted in the hands of the religious right.
Personally, I've been thinking for some while that Barry must be spinning in his grave like a top to see what's become of his movement. He was greatly dismayed (to say the least) before he died, and it hasn't gotten any better. One can only imagine what he'd have said about the "patriot act". I'd bet he'd borrow a line from Samuel Johnson ("patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - though Boswell's account suggests that Johnson was talking about the frothy, publicly-avowed kind, as opposed to the real patriotism of someone like BG).
In keeping with the theme of this thread, Goldwater had a kind of personal balance - he defended everyone's freedom. Gay, straight, white, black or green with purple polka dots. Of course he also demanded personal responsibility, but he expected that of everyone too.
perfessergee
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Okie dokie. I just wanted to make it clear your ideas don't represent the Libertarian Party or legitimate libertarian Republicans like Ron Paul. Thanks for clarifying that you've 'moved on'.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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ALL ABOUT TORTURE
I'm guessing the majority of people here have never been tortured, and have never committed torture. So we're all just arm-chair warriors on this issue. But anyway, I'll chime in with things I *think* I know about torture.
1) Effectiveness of torture: The average person, when confronted with a sufficient amount of discomfort for a sufficient length of time, will tell you what you want to know (or, at least, what you want to hear.) There will be people at both extremes. There will be those who will never talk, and there will be those who talk even with little or no torture. I don't buy into the commonly held belief by the anti-torture crowd that torture isn't effective at gaining cooperation. If you drive a corkscrew into my privates, I'll probably tell you anything you want to know. I'll probably feel guilty about it. Later.
2) Usefulness of torture: So, you can eventually break someone. Yippee. How useful is that? Well, my understanding is that soldiers are actually told that they can 'break' under interrogation after a few days have passed. Why? Because once you've been confirmed captured, any knowledge you have will be quickly made useless. Plans will be re-drawn. Pending operations will be completed or changed. There is very little spectacular knowledge that the average soldier holds in a war. What little spectacular knowledge he has, will likely expire quickly. Intelligence goes sour faster than milk.
So, given these two factors, would I torture? Not usually. I would have to believe that someone had some unlikely spectacular knowledge for me to go ahead and torture them. I mean, it would have to be like an episode of "24" where I need to know where the nuke is and I need to know now. This isn't common. It's not even particularly likely. Therefore, torture should be so rare that we never hear of it. When it happens, it should be part of a secret operation of doom and the person who was tortured should probably not ever see the light of day. I mean, if it's not THAT serious, then why are you torturing them at all? If it is THAT serious, why am I hearing about it? Ought to be classified and concealed up the yin yang.
Finally, my definition of torture: Discomfort applied to a subject in an effort to obtain a desired result.
This makes the schoolyard bully, who twists your arm in order to get you to cough up your lunch money, a torturer.
It also makes a wrestler a torturer.
The schoolyard bully is a criminal torturer. He inflicts torture on an innocent victim for his own pleasure or benefit.
The wrestler is a sportsman torturer. His opponent and he agreed to enter into a friendly game of mutual torture to see who could torture whom to the greatest effect.
So, what is the soldier who tortures another soldier for information? It depends on the unlikely presence of a ticking nuke somewhere.
And that's really how I see things.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I just think - of course, EVERY government has it's own problems, but most of them actually bring us many benefits. I may, at the moment, detest Tony Blair and George Bush with a fiery passion, but that doesn't mean everything they do is wrong. OK, the NHS may be terrible, and I may be thoroughly against the war, but they have done some good things. I can't think of any RIGHT now. But I'm sure there's some.
OK - I may not be coming across as the most intelligent person ever right now, but that's mainly my language skills (or lack of) - which I blame entirely on my mad hatter of an English teacher. My point here is, YES governments do bad things, but as long as they change, fine, or if they don't, vote them out! The wonders of democracy! I see where this point fails when it comes to Zimbabwe, but that isn't a democracy - is it?
These are my thoughts as best as I can voice them (well some of them anyway).
If you don't like them - vote me out! - FLF
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Quote:You neo-leftys, always with the backhanded compliment!
Originally posted by fantasticlaughingfairy:
they have done some good things. I can't think of any RIGHT now. But I'm sure there's some.
So, the Yin and Yang of government is that the pendulum can swing to extremes, but it can always be brought back with the power of the vote?
And no, I don't think Zimbabwe is a Democracy...
You're a corker, FLF.
Chrisisall Guevarra
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AnthonyT
We have been on different ends of many issues - imagine my surprise at being in complete agreement with everything you posted. And let me add - WELL SAID !
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Thanks, Rue. Sometimes my logic tracks right across belief systems. ;-)
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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AnthonyT- I read your post on torture. I find it insightful and useful. Thanks.
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A very Eastern way to look at it all, Taoism or Daoism characterized as both a philosophy and a religion.
Dialogue and Transformation: Buddhism in Asian Philosophy
https://www.columbia.edu/cu/weai/exeas/resources/glossary-buddhism-asi
an-philosophy.html
Experiencing one of Tokyo’s biggest religious festivals
https://mb.com.ph/2024/5/25/experiencing-one-of-tokyo-s-biggest-religi
ous-festivals
The Sanja Matsuri is one of the three largest Shinto celebrations
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