So, Just What *Is* Torture?
POSTED BY: perfessergee
UPDATED: Monday, August 29, 2005 10:55
VIEWED: 11212
PAGE 3 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I have to say that this is the one of the most silly things I've ever heard anyone say in my life, and I can't believe, after all I've read him post, that SargeX would agree with it. You're actually saying that someone who stands strong by their values and doesn't compromise them, ever, is a coward? That we should only be honest or caring or merciful when it suits us, because we can, ya'know, always go back? That line of thinking is so amazingly idiotic that it's almost surreal, Hero.
Did someone mention my name?
My point was that locking yourself into rigid set of values that you'll never, ever, consider compromising isn't a good idea. It assumes that your original values were infallible to begin with and that they'll be good for all possible situations. No human being can live their life this way.
Obviously I'm agreeing with your overall characterization of the current debate. I'm not arguing for moral relativism in general, but you have to recognize that preconceived notions of right and wrong aren't completely infallible and when applied too rigidly, or too universally, can lead to unintended consequences.
I'd also qualify my comments by saying I definitely don't agree with Hero's related point, that you can give up moral convictions in a crisis and then easily return to them afterwards - especially in situations that set precedent, like government policy.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Sorry Sarge, I believe I misinterpreted your meaning, and I do agree that absolute rigidity in your values can be a bad thing. BUT, being flexible in your values and giving them up in a crisis are two entirely different things. You use your values to guide you through difficult situations, as best they can when you encounter new situations; you don't just abandon them entirely and "come back to them." Compromising your values and being flexible are two very different things.
You don't say, "I value humane treatment of prisoners," then when war comes change your mind to "beat them to death" because you feel the need to get revenge. You say instead, "we need to find a way to mesh humane treatment of prisoners with still keeping our people safe." Otherwise, we become just like them.
It just confuses me a might bit, is all I'm sayin', because I don't see the difference between them killing one of our hostages/soldiers by beating him to death and us killing one of theirs by beating them to death. How is the first torture and the second not? Why don't you friggin' hypocrites want to be better than "they" are? I know I do.
It reminds me of the old saw, "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave man but once." I'm not scared of death, it's gonna happen to me one day eventually anyway. But I am scared to live in a world without mercy, honesty, and freedom. All of you that are willing to sacrifice your humanity and freedoms for a little security are dying inside just a little bit each time, which is why I think you find it easier and easier to justify morally reprehensible behavior.
7%
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Quote:I'm not one to make judgements on people's souls, and I won't say "You're a bad person" based on some posts. And maybe I haven't read all the posts at this site, but I will say this:
Originally posted by G1223:
Because he will send you to hell and he will get a dozen or so virgins in paradise.
The posts on THIS thread by G1223 are THE stupidist
I've ever read here.Disconcerted Chrisisall
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Torture is anything that leaves lasting physical or psychological effects.
But more importantly, it is a way of telling your enemy that there will be an extra fee for pissing us off. As if they would care.
In days past, prisoners would be tortured to death just in case they had any important information; these days it's just for fun.
Either way, it's sick.
And anyone advocating the torture of ANYONE is in need of serious therapy.
Chrisisall, who tortures colds with vitamin C
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Quote:Hero, I feel that I simply must steal your new Mustang, is that okay?
Originally posted by Hero:
Bad things when we have to, yes, but we feel bad about it and that seperates us from the likes of terrorists who do bad things all the time and celebrate their doings.
I pwomise to feel bad about it.....
later...
Makin' the point Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
I'm not one to make judgements on people's souls, and I won't say "You're a bad person" based on some posts. And maybe I haven't read all the posts at this site, but I will say this:
The posts on THIS thread by G1223 are THE stupidist
Disconcerted Chrisisall
The enemy you are terrorist has been told time and again that by killing the non believer or dying in the attempt he will get to go to heaven. This is what the news is reporting. This is what we have been told the last twenty years.
So while you are trying to hold his hand and talk to him of peace the terrorist and his supporters are trying to kill the soldier and civilians of this country.
Why are you trying to act like you can treat him any better than he is willing to treat you.
As to how you feel about the post I have made I can only say "Bite me"
TANSTAAFL
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SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:Sorry, I was a little not-nice there, I understand that now.
Originally posted by G1223:
As to how you feel about the post I have made I can only say "Bite me"
Next time you post here, can you get Mommy and Daddy's permission first?
I forget who has access to computers Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Sigh. That makes two of us.
On the same wall as you, brother.------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Sigh. That makes two of us.
Is there room for me?
(Ow.)
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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