The shooting of Jean Charles De Menezes

POSTED BY: citizen
UPDATED: Sunday, August 21, 2005 01:05
VIEWED: 5229
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CITIZEN

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:22 PM

New evidence has come to light that indicates that the man shot on the tube after the Terror attacks in London was not warned, and there was no apparent reason for the police to believe he had a bomb.

http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:07 PM

Thanks for the bad news, Citizen. He wasn't even wearing a winter coat... God damn it, then it was an exicution!

I hope your people will be better at dealing with these kinds of things than we have been. I hope there will be some fallout from this that affects policy for the better. I hope Jean Charles De Menezes won't have died in vain.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:25 PM

Apparently the officer tasked with surveilance of the block of flats he left was 'relieving' himself at the time so couldn't make a positive identification...
I really hope this wakes people up a bit to the possibllity that not everyone who's slightly tanned is a terroist...
Some how I doubt it...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

FIVVER

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:45 PM

Please tell me itv.com is your version of moveon.org. IE not to be trusted.

The words 'tragic mistake' don't seem strong enough but are the only ones that come to mind.

The one thing your police are not noted for is being trigger happy. Was the threat level great enough to justify the issuing of a shoot to kill order (I can't remember the last time that happened here)? And I'm sure those cops did not wake up that morning intending to kill an innocent man.

May God's peace be with Jean Charles' family and those officers and may some better way to handle this be found.

Fivver

CITIZEN

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:34 PM

Unfortunatly itv is a well known and respected news channel over here...
I heard the story on Channel 4 news, just found another link on their site:
http://www.channel4.com/news/content/news-storypage.jsp?id=1677571
It goes into a bit more detail.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fivver:
The one thing your police are not noted for is being trigger happy.

Thats what worries me...
Our armed police are specially trained, spend more time training than anything else, so a mistake like this shouldn't happen...

Quote:
Originally posted by Fivver:
Was the threat level great enough to justify the issuing of a shoot to kill order (I can't remember the last time that happened here)?

It took place after a second round of (attempted) bombings on the London underground.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

SERGEANTX

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:16 PM

Sadly, this is the inevitable fallout of terrorism. It's more or less the point of it - to get us so scared and jumpy we self-destruct.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

RUXTON

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:11 AM

Some patriot in the Metropolitan Police has leaked the classified internal report on the incident and reveals a whole list of lies in the official pronouncements following the shooting:

1. Mr. De Menezez was not wearing any clothing suitable for concealing a bomb; he wasn't carrying any kind of bag either.

2. Mr. De Menezez did NOT run into the station, vault the ticket barrier or do anything else of the kind. He walked into the station, used his electronic swipe card to get through the barriers and even paused to pick up a newspaper on his way down to the track levels. At this point, he had not been approached by any police officer, despite having been trailed for miles.

3. He jogged into the train but he did not trip and have to be held down by two policemen. Instead, he sat down in a seat in a train that had just arrived at Stockwell station.

4. The Rules of Engagement were as follows:
The suspect was NOT under ANY circumstances to be allowed on a train
Despite later claims to the contrary in the press, the day orders to the officers was that lethal force was only authorised if the suspect either refused to co-operate when challenged or ran away.

Despite these directives, no one was in the position to intercept him before he got on the train, despite the fact that they managed to get an undercover officer on the train ahead of him. Also, despite the fact that he was followed into the station, no one attempted to challenge him, despite the fact he was clearly not able to have a hidden explosive device on his person.

5. The police later claimed that the CCTV system at Stockwell Station was out of order. In fact, it was in perfect working order and filmed Mr. De Menezez as he entered the station, bought his newspaper, passed through the ticket barriers and descended to the track level.

6. Only after sitting down in the train was Mr. De Menezez approached and challenged by the armed police officers. He stood up and turned to look at them, probably intending to co-operate with the men shouting 'Police!' at him. Another undercover police officer, who was on the train, took the opportunity to grab him, pinning his arms, and threw him back into his seat. Then the armed officers threw the undercover officer aside (he was the one that eyewitnesses saw being pinned to the ground by two officers) and the others started pumping bullets into Mr. De Menezez's head as he sat, probably still not knowing what was going on.

The real kicker is this: Mr. De Menezez had been 'positively identified' as one of the 7/21 suspects despite the fact that no one seems to have seen his face clearly. The only officer in a position to do so was watching the entrance to the apartment block. Unfortunately he was taking a pee at the time and could only confirm that a 'male' had left. Unfortunately as he was 'indisposed', he was unable to turn on the video cameras in his vehicle to actually get a picture of the man.

FIVVER

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:08 AM

Here's another version of what's going on from the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4157892.stm

Fivver

CITIZEN

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:37 AM

I thought what was happening was pretty bad some weeks ago shortly after the incident, but still hoped that it was just an accident. Its looking more and more like summary execution to me...
Ruxton, thanks for the points, do you have a source that I could get at?
Fivver, thanks for the source from the bbc, I was trying to find one last night, but they can be slow putting information up on their website.

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Sadly, this is the inevitable fallout of terrorism. It's more or less the point of it - to get us so scared and jumpy we self-destruct.

We've been dealing with terroism for years over here in the UK, and I don't remember and incident like this. No one of 'Irish' appearence was shot walking on to the underground.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

BECSTHEBEAST

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:40 AM

i thought i had posted this up here when we found out from the family campaign who had seen the cctv footage a couple of weeks ago - the press could have published this news at anytime but they have chosen now which is complete downtime in the political calendar - it is deliberatelty being buried at a time when newspaper circulation drops and politicians are topping up their tans

all i can hope is that i hope it puts a swift end to the 'shoot to kill' policy

according to the bbc this morning it seems the cock up over identity happened 'cos one copper was taking a leak - yeah they're that smart and i don't trust 'em and i don't like 'em on our public transport

all the lies that have been told have only served to heighten a sense of fear - this, hypocritically, from the people who tell us that they won't change 'cos of terrorists - its the establishment pumping the fear now - blair's attacks on civil liberties are outrageous and unjustifiable as is his initial refusal to link the bombings to British foreign policy - primarily in Iraq - something almost all mainstream commentators now accept

the media is not fooling me

smile pretty and watch your back
march for peace and liberty 24th September London, www.stopwar.org.uk

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