The Yin and Yang of it all: Class, be seated.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, May 27, 2024 15:25
VIEWED: 3714
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SIGNYM

Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:41 PM

Tossing in a comment about human motivation.... I'm not a psychologist but I can guarantee WHATEVER trait you pick (acquisitiveness, hairiness, colon length) you will ALWAYS find people who are three standard deviations from the norm. Always. So some people will be greedy because, ya know, they're compulsive about acqusition. In fact, there was an interesting book written about the psychological profile of the robber barons (including Bill Gates ) and they all had similar profile: asocial in the extreme, isolated from family and friends, tended to regard money as a "marker" in a game not an end to itself, hyperfocused on winning the game (as they defined it), had compulsive habits (Bill used to bob at the table so badly he almost banged his head on it... I guess he's taking medicine for that now!) etc. It's how society reacts to these people that's an issue. It's possible that deviants in certain areas (money, politics, religion) will always tend to warp society in their favor because they have more of the "lever that moves the world" in their hands. (Whereas deviants who love rubber galoshes remain plain deviants because rubber galoshes are not much of a lever.)

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
I think the key to a successful relationship is to highlight the good, try ignore the bad, and live with the rest as best you can.

I appreciate your love of this country, I love it too. But to 'try to ignore the bad' is a recipe for unpleasantness. Did our founding fathers try to ignore the bad? If you had an infection, would you ignore it? Problems need to be addressed, so the greatness of this, or any other land, can be secured.
That was the point of this thread.
Thanks for posting, Andrew.
Good night.

Chrisisall

SERGEANTX

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Take care of your country because she is taking care of you, even if you don't know it.

Andrew Lynch

Fair enough, AJ. But we (the people so quick to disparage the US) ARE our country. And we're taking care to keep her on the right course, even if you don't know it.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SERGEANTX

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
One of my all time favorite quotes:

Quote:

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

-Barry Goldwater

This is fascinating, because Goldwater is a hero of mine and this is one of my favorite quotes. But I'm guessing we see it's implications to current events very differently.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
But I'm guessing we see it's implications to current events very differently.

Very differently, indeed. Eras must alter the perception of literal meaning... or maybe that quote is more open to interpretation than I thought...
This quote would seem, to me, to contradict much of what the Bush administration is all about!?!
(Suddenly, I feel the need to watch Star Trek VI again, heh, heh.)

I remember Goldwater from my childhood, I took you to be much younger than I, is you old like me?
Remember 'That which does not kill you, makes you stronger'? There's all manner of interpretations for that, left, right, and center.(please pardon my Conan/philosophy reference)

Again, two views, neither totally wrong or right. The essence of Ying and Yang.

I'm lovin' it.
(Uh-oh, is MacDonald's gonna sue me for usin' that line?)

Late night Chrisisall

PERFESSERGEE

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:22 AM

My esteemed correspondent Chrisisall has asked that I comment on his latest provocation. Damned guy, he just keeps jabbing his pointed stick into…..into….into…… Well hell, he just insists on identifying important points of debate. I hope he remembers what happens to the messenger…..

So how on Earth does one get to the balance of yin and yang in the era of hyper-polarized debate? On these very boards we’ve got those who can brook no suggestion that the US (and its current administration) can have committed any mistakes, let alone have committed any malfeasance, with respect to either domestic or foreign events. You’ve all seen those arguments – they are not remotely subtle in stating that those who hold any dissenting view are a bunch of America-hating pinko terrorist-lovers, and worst of all “liberals”.

Sidebar commentary: I think it’s deliciously ironic that the advocates of the most conservative economic policies are the neo-liberals. (Think on that one – do you know what the word “liberal” means?).

On the other hand, there are other folk on these boards who strongly suggest that the domestic and foreign policy of the US over the last couple of decades (or last century, depending upon whom you talk to) is purely a matter of corporate economic or political self-interest. That the US doesn’t give much of a rip about the rest of the world and only seeks its own best outcomes. And that those who fail to see this are ignorant and socially deprived.

So dammit, who’s right? Well, IMHO, anybody who insists that his/her viewpoint is infallibly correct had better be god and had better be able to prove it. The rest of us are waiting. And in the meantime we’ll go on debating………..

Of course my own views are not subject to any of the above…………

perfessergee

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by perfessergee:
So how on Earth does one get to the balance of yin and yang in the era of hyper-polarized debate?

One way I can think of is to imagine yourself as a man in another part of the world. You have a wife and small child. Times are tough, and you can't provide for them very well. Your religion is some comfort, but doesn't help feed your baby. You're told over and over that all this is the fault of a country on the other side of the planet, a country that hates you. As you slip into depression and self-loathing, a holy man (?) comes to you and explains a way out; bring yourself and some others to God tomorrow, where you can wait for your wife and child whom they will take care of, and help strike a blow for freedom from this evil empire which has oppressed your family and your nation.

Okay, not to excuse anyone, but maybe to see how someone could be tricked into strapping a bomb to his chest and walking into a bus or building. The more we can humanize what we fear, the more we can understand our 'enemy', the less of an intangible 'monster' they become. Just people, like ourselves, subject to being lied to and manipulated, albeit on a much different level.

Maybe see a little of the 'us in the 'them'.

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:27 PM

Thanks for the link, Goldwater was a doozy, all right. I liked him best in the 80's, where he was hard to predict.
We need more conservatives like that.

And I was talkin' about Sarge's age, not yours (you're somewhere between twenty-two and fifty-one, I'm guessin').

I can guess your weight, too Chrisisall

SERGEANTX

Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Thanks for the link, Goldwater was a doozy, all right. I liked him best in the 80's, where he was hard to predict.
We need more conservatives like that.

And I was talkin' about Sarge's age, not yours (you're somewhere between twenty-two and fifty-one, I'm guessin').

I can guess your weight, too Chrisisall

I'm 41, Chris. And I agree about the 80's. His political philosophy really matured when he saw how badly his ideas could be twisted in the hands of the religious right.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SERGEANTX

Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:44 PM

Also, for the record. Right wingers often like to drop the 'L' word into conversations to give them the appearance of independent thought. It's frustrating for me because I've spent a good chunk of my life passively and actively supporting the Libertarian Party and its ideology.

These people are NOT libertarians. Don't be fooled by the Rovist "Black is White" doublespeak. They're not even 'conservative libertarians'. The epitome of the 'conservative libertarian' is the Republican Representative from Texas, Ron Paul. He speaks out against Bush's policies in the GWOT and Iraq regularly. Here's an example:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul262.html

There are many others examples of his ideas out there.

As far as the Libertarian Party proper, you can find their official position on Iraq here:

http://www.lp.org/media/article_160.shtml

I just wanted to clear the mud a little regarding what it means to be 'libertarian'.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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