Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 19 of 22
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Those vids are *theirs*. Is that clear enough for you? Those vids do *not* belong to Joss Whedon, or fandom as a whole and they most *certainly* do not belong to you.
Well, this is my last word on the subject - I disagree with you. Your above statement is wrong. We can repeat it and repeat it, I am not going to budge.
On a side note, you know what's funny about all of this? Succatash is actually a master video editor. He gets paid to make online video demonstrations.
He has made many short movies and music videos, and he always gets permission to use audio. The video he shoots himself with a High-8 vid camera. He made a very funny movie about a ventriloquist dummy who went to college, and lots of videos for his friends band.
He has made a lot of illegal stuff too, but he just lets those vids get passed around.
Succatash knows better.
...and so with a wave of his hand, Maniac leaves this cursed thread, and joins Kaythryn in the boycott.
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Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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I'm with you, in fact; I've... got... an idea. We hijack the tread. Post stuff that has nothing to do with the topic.
Love it, love you
Any one have any suggestions for a list of everyday Firefly curses and short phrases? I need some lingo.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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Originally posted by Kaythryn:
Love it, love you
Love you right back.
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Any one have any suggestions for a list of everyday Firefly curses and short phrases? I need some lingo.
For use on this post?
You know it took like a minute for this post to load. It should be instantanious. Like a second.
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Originally posted by TragicStory:
I know I swore not to chime in again, but I think that if we were to all go beat the ever-loving sh_t our of the fan who gave the VCDs and started this everyone would feel much better.
I didn't hand over the vcd, neither did Maniacone or succutash so I don't think they should be held resposible for the huge panic flight that ensuing.
(holding up hand)
Umm... point of interest? Just because I like to keep the facts straight. As dumb as that VCD person was, the REAL flight and the taking down of vids and webpages didn't start until maniacnumberone posted Nia's vid without her permission. Granted, he took it down but grudgingly so, and then Succatash put it back up against her wishes with his (apparent) support. The FF vids that won't be released now are a direct result of their actions.
No offense, just clarifying matters.
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Okay, as far as I can tell, this should hopefully address both sides of the argument. No names named, no names called. Just the best logic I can muster. This is my point of view; your mileage may vary...
I suspect a large part of the problem is that this argument is operating on two levels simultaneously, and those levels keep getting mixed up and tangled.
First, there’s the purely legal level, in which anyone who takes copyrighted material and distributes it in any manner without express written permission can be held liable. That’s anyone at all - from the person who creates the vid, to the person who puts it up on a web site, to the person who gives the vid to the copyright holder. A number of individual copyright holders turn a blind eye to this, which is what allows such creative fandom efforts to survive and prosper, but many corporations find it necessary to jealously guard their copyrighted material, and do so to levels even beyond what the law permits sometimes.
On this level, just about EVERYONE here is in the wrong, myself included. Fox could, in theory, hit fireflyfans.net with a Cease and Desist order, which the owners of this site might - MIGHT - be able to successfully fight, but at a cost in resources they probably cannot bear. So this entire site lives under the Sword of Damocles.
Then there’s the other level, the level that most of creative fandom operates on, in whatever genre. The people who put effort into creating music vids, photo manipulations, and fan fiction cannot look to the law to protect them; hence, creative fandom must survive under ... well, let’s just call them “gentlemen’s agreements”, with apologies to the ladies. The purpose of such gentlemen’s agreements is to enable the vidder or photomanipulator or fanfic author (I’ll just use the term “creator” for simplicity’s sake here) to remain under the radar of those entities that jealously guard their copyright, and use drastic means of enforcement. Some fandoms benefit from permissive copyright holders, such as the anime fandoms mentioned above; others, like those based on Fox-owned properties, must be more circumspect.
One solution to the problem might be total anonymity, but that has its own problems: human beings have a tendency to want to be recognized for what they do, and in the past, this has proven to be an acceptable price for the fandom to pay to encourage people to continue their creative efforts. Names become associated with types of work, levels of quality, enabling people to find material to suit their tastes more quickly, and enhance their enjoyment of the fandom.
In the past, when a creator has asked for material to be taken off publicly accessible sites, there have been several reasons, from a desire to withdraw from the fandom, to a creator having run afoul of the copyright holders and finding himself or herself on the business end of court orders, to a perceived need for the creator to go into a sort of “silent running” mode for a time, to allow a tense situation to dissipate. Generally, this has entailed the creator removing works from publicly accessible domains, and requesting that anyone else who has those materials on a publicly accessible site remove them. It’s not a matter of jealousy; it’s a matter of waiting out the hunter, trying to stay as quiet as possible until the danger is past.
It’s also ENTIRELY dependent on the good will of the community in respecting the creator’s wishes. The creator doesn’t have any leverage to force others in the fandom to take the works out of circulation, but is betting on the fandom understanding that.
(Oh, and here’s another wrinkle: I’ll have to look this one up, but if Creator A is hit with a cease-and-desist letter, forced to pull the vids, and Creator A is aware of the existence of copies of those vids on a certain site on the Internet, Creator A may very well be obliged to reveal that location to the authorities. The consequences if Creator A fails to do so: possibly the cease-and-desist letter from the lawyers becomes an official court
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Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I am not going to budge.
Ain't getting no vids either. Enjoy the silence.
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You know it took like a minute for this post to load. It should be instantanious. Like a second.
maybe we can kill it through sheer gluttony.
not boycotting anymore (obviously). don't know why i tried.
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Posted by Sarahetc.
Any one have any suggestions for a list of everyday Firefly curses and short phrases? I need some lingo.
she probably needs it for use in her next shiny new FAN FIC!!
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
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Gluttony works. Hey it's one of the seven deadly sins.
i hope she needs it for a fic. Don't want to be contributing to someone's deliquency.
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Originally posted by BKtheirregular:
Then there’s the other level, the level that most of creative fandom operates on, in whatever genre. The people who put effort into creating music vids, photo manipulations, and fan fiction cannot look to the law to protect them; hence, creative fandom must survive under ... well, let’s just call them “gentlemen’s agreements”, with apologies to the ladies.
Not offended. :) Wonderful post, BK. Very reasonable and rational. But here's the rub - what do the creators of fannish works do when they're not dealing with gentlemen?
In a way, I guess you could say that Nia and the other vidders put their trust too easily in the hands of scoundrels. That's as may be, but me and you and everyone else in FF are the ones losing out because of it. At least 3 of my favorite archives are offline today, and I haven't even begun to assess the damage yet. (I'm too afraid to look!) So yeah, that ticks me off. Maniacnumberone and Succatash's stubborn and ignorant refusal to see how their actions have harmed the Firefly fandom is just as irritating, but I've given up trying to convince them that slapping people in the face just because you can is inherently wrong.
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I don't need new curses. I got a dictionary! And a list in a notebook on my desk. Kaythryn needs 'em.
As for fanfic: I got the first 5 pages of a new Wash fic and the chicken scratchings of a new Browncoat Chronicles.
Actually, I would like to know the Chinese for "Hoobity, take your barbies and go home and shut the fox up already. Christ!"
But! Hijacking the thread! Best idea in a long time.
Sarah
I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case
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