Capitalism and Firefly
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 16:21
VIEWED: 10053
PAGE 8 of 11
This topic reminds me of an inner conflict I've never really been able to resolve. Despite my enthusiasm for laissez-faire economics, I actually find money tedious and annoying. In fact, I'm a downright crummy capitalist. I like to tell myself that's due to my impatience with all the regulatory and bureaucratic baggage that our current version of capitalism carries with it. But I can't be totally sure of that. 
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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I would accept that label for myself, too.
Want to start a 'crummy capitalist's anymous' thread? 
Chrisisall
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One of the issues that I haven't yet seen addressed on this thread is that of information assymetries. A number of modern economists have spent a great deal of time thinking and writing about this. A basic assumption of market capitalism is that all actors in the market have equivalent and current information. Assymetries among the actors can grotesquely distort markets, and allow those with superior information to basically ream everybody else. This is why insider trading in the stock market is prohibited. The Enron debacle is a great example of how the greedy can use information asymmetries to pillage those not in the know (which in that case included many of their own employees - may Ken Lay and his buddies spend a whole lot of time in the Special Hell).
And, of course, information can not only be manipulated, but there can be very powerful incentives for so doing.
To me, the US economic system looks a lot more like a gigantic information manipulation free-for-all than anything approaching honest capitalism (can you say "advertising", "media conglomerates" and "political spinmeisters?).
Capitalism is for wusses in comparison........
perfessergee
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It's always a pleasure to read informative posts.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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SignyM and I were discussing this off-line. He (she?) is interested in the process of modern capitalism, and looking for the equivalent of a model that describes its functions.
If I inderstood correctly, one thing he mentioned was: why is modern capitalism so successful at spawning more capitalism?
Is it a matter of technology and the consequent multiplication of human productivity (capitalistic countries tend to be the most technologically advanced - not necessarily cause and effect). Is it the accumulative nature of capitalism? (concentration of wealth that may lead to investment in large-scale operations w/ economies of scale; or that leads to control of government that favors capitalists). And questions of this nature.
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SgtX: I find one of the frutrating things about capitalism (aside from living life in a cage over which I have no control) is the abstract nature of life-sustaining work. One does 'stuff' and gets a 'check' which stands for 'money' which can be used to finally get the things by which one lives. Maybe that's why so many people yearn for an agrarian past. You get the stuff of life directly with your own two hands.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by perfessergee:
To me, the US economic system looks a lot more like a gigantic information manipulation free-for-all than anything approaching honest capitalism (can you say "advertising", "media conglomerates" and "political spinmeisters?).
Absomalutely. This is definitely something that needs to be explored. I think the same kind of manipulation is having it's way with democracy as well. Free markets and democratic rule both rely on an informed, prudent population to function well. But once you can keep people in the dark...
As a relatively petty example, take cell phones. I refuse to use one because of the deceptive, manipulative pricing schemes they use. It would be a trivial matter to have a little ticker on the screen of your cell phone showing exactly what your bill was at any given moment, or exactly what a call would cost you when you enter the number. But they very deliberately avoid that, introducing complex shell games for billing plans. Why do people line up for this kind of garbage?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
SgtX: I find one of the frutrating things about capitalism (aside from living life in a cage over which I have no control) is the abstract nature of life-sustaining work. One does 'stuff' and gets a 'check' which stands for 'money' which can be used to finally get the things by which one lives. Maybe that's why so many people yearn for an agrarian past. You get the stuff of life directly with your own two hands.
Great point! I've often yearned for a lifestyle where I directly utilized the fruits of my labor. It must be incredibly satisfying to build your own house, for example. And I'm not talking about hiring a contractor and taking out loans all the modern hocus pocus, but by cutting down trees, designing the layout, laying the foundation. It's so seldom we see direct results like that.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:If 90% didn't recognize the 'right' of the 10% who want to take everything, could the 10% keep their preferred system going?
rue:
If you are wondering what the single precept is, it is "just enough".
Chrisisall:
I would agree with you on that, but I don't think it would sit too well with at least 10% of the U.S. population.
Seeing sci-fi movies as a kid, I would have thought by now we would have 'evolved beyond' greed and hate, I guess it's in the genome...
I work with someone who used to stick his nose in the air and declare - it's human nature to be (greedy, brutal, power-hungry). But if that's true, what about the 99% of humans who aren't? (globally) Are they not human?
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I work with someone who used to stick his nose in the air and declare - it's human nature to be (greedy, brutal, power-hungry). But if that's true, what about the 99% of humans who aren't? (globally) Are they not human?
Gawd, that does get old. It's fine and dandy to defend rationale self-interest, but these people who read half of Atlas Shrugged and start prancing around bragging about what greedy pricks they are. ARRRHGGHH
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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SgtX
But, notice I said used to ! He doesn't say that where I can hear it anymore. 
OOC, can anyone take up the economics discussion with SignyM? Not only are the answers beyond me, the questions are as well. They seem to approach economics a little bit like thermodynamics and a little bit like the (new) science of mathematically modeling evolution.
I think it would take someone knowledgeable to carry on.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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