Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 16 of 22
Quote:
Sarahetc wrote:
if it's not got by now, it's not gonna get got.
Quite true. Trolls will always be with us in fandom. However, one never has to tolerate them.
Quote:
Hush!
See above.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Succatash wrote: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 06:37 There's a funny headline in today's news - "Hacker Smacks Down Madonna"
Hehehe. What a hoot! (Although I hate it when the media insists on calling these people 'hackers') I guess that one just goes back to the old, "Ask a silly question..."
XenArc
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Haken was not telling me, or anyone else, how to run a website.
Never said he was, but his post was a perfect example of what we'd all been trying to tell you about acceptable and courteous behavior in fandom, and why it works out much better for all of us if people just follow some very simple and non-hurtful guidelines.
And what we've learned from you is that you think courtesy doesn't apply to you and communities only exist for you to wipe your feet on.
Whatever. Nobody expects trolls to behave, after all. But you can't adopt troll behavior and then get your back up when people recognize it for what it is and shun and vilify you.
Your choice, dude.
Quote:
not at all like mine (website) was, before it got shut down.
Karma sucks, eh?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
hooobity wrote:
"And what we've learned from you is that you think courtesy doesn't apply to you and communities only exist for you to wipe your feet on."
Not sure what community you are in, but I belong to Firefly's community. Like I said earlier, I am not a part of anyone's secret club.
My goal is to promote Firefly and get it back on the air. Fans should use artwork to promote Firefly, they should not be using Firefly to promote their own artwork.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Viv:
Would be because you are wrong. A lawerly type person has assured me that:
(a) violation of copyright is not theft. Theft has a very specific legal meaning and copyright violation isn't it. Therefore, to argue that fans are 'stealing' from TPTB is, quite simply, wrong in law.
(b) that each fan-vidder, fanfiction writer, fan-artist etc who produces a new derivative work also holds the copyright in that work. They probably can't exploit that copyright but it doesn't stop it from existing.
I have looked into this kids. I have spoken with a real lawyer, not just a lawyerly type.
Violation of copyright IS theft. (Just as TragicStory stated - plagiarism and copyright law travel down the road hand in hand.)
Unfortunately, (the lawyer assured me) most copyright infringement cases do not end in jail. Instead a hefty fine is all most ever get.
In order for fan vidders to have the rights they want, they must change at least 40% of all aspects of the material that is copyrighted. That means that the music video's can't be just sectioned up and put into a different order. The video must be changed at the digital level. 40% is a lot more than most vidders have done. (at least the vids I have seen)
Also, the music which underlies the video must also be changed to the same degree. 40% That also involves changing the music at a digital level.
So, if you have followed me, the "new derivitave work" vidders have created must follow certain guidelines. Until those guidelines have been met, the copyright which vidders would like to hold on their video's is nonexistant.
I would suggest posting a valid dislclaimer of the following nature on any website you have which hosts copyrighted material from Firefly. (or anything else for that matter) --
"Since I am not the creator of the idea for the artwork I am producing, and I am not sufficiently changing it, all rights to this artwork belongs to Joss Whedon, Fox and/or Mutant Enemy - (or whoever currently owns the rights to Firefly.) As such, I cannot control the free distribution of this artwork, and there is no charge to view or download. Please be aware you may post any of this artwork on your own site, but that in order for you to charge people for the right to view, download or do anything else with this artwork, you must first contact the above mentioned copyright owners and ask their permission."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Not sure what community you are in, but I belong to Firefly's community. Like I said earlier, I am not a part of anyone's secret club.
Boy you DO live in a vacuum, don't you? Hint; Fireflyfans.net is not the sole place where Firefly communities exists on the web. I suggest you take a look around at the hundreds of internet journals on blogspot and others where your wanking example is being held up as the pimple on the wart on the buttocks of fandom. Wait a couple of weeks and do a google search on your nick and see what your own community thinks of you and if you really are as welcome as you think you are.
After all, that's where I found this thread. Over and over again.
Quote:
My goal is to promote Firefly and get it back on the air.
Um ...yeah. Yeah. Right. By making sure the vidders stop vidding and the archivists stop archiving and the writers stop writing and the artists stop drawing because ravening weasels like you are among us?
Smart thinking, Einstein.
Quote:
Fans should use artwork to promote Firefly, they should not be using Firefly to promote their own artwork.
Man... you are a walking tower of wank.
"Fans should produce so I can steal it and do whatever I want with it", is what you've said to the fandom. The fandom is saying "No thanks" back to you. Get the hint.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
Would be because you are wrong. A lawerly type person has assured me that:
This has never been simply about law. It's been about community and the willingness of the fans to produce artwork and fiction and vidding material IF (and that's a big darned IF) an atmosphere of trust exists in the fandom.
Destroy that trust and the fandom implodes.
Guys like Succatash voided that trust. Therefore, the vids are gone. New and wonderful vids won't be released where people like you and succatash can get at them. Rail about the law all you want, the fact exists that the fan artists in question feel violated, unappreciated, and misused. I don't blame them for that. I blame you for that.
Quote:
I would suggest posting a valid dislclaimer
(reads your version of "disclaimer" giving all and sundry free permission to bend the artist over and roger them with a steamshovel)
HAHHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAA!! In your wet dreams, dude. heheheh.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"Hint; Fireflyfans.net is not the sole place where Firefly communities exists on the web."
Yeah, I had a Firefly site myself. Some traitors shut it down.
Fan artwork is a great way to promote Firefly. Everyone should keep up the great work.
Do it for Firefly, not yourself. Stop worrying about glory and fame.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I anticipated your reply. Sorry you have no concept of living in any other society than the one you have made up. Real society is there though. I would suggest to all vidders that are so sure of themselves and their rights to Joss's work, to post their vid's. Also, please post you name, and your website address. If you are right, as you believe, then you have nothing to fear. (In fact you probably have nothing to fear anyway, since no one will probably ever go to your site.) But, If I am right, as I am now positive that I am, with a lawyer's perspective, then you do have something to fear. I would love for you to post your website's address. Please post your real name as well, if you are not worried. I am willing to bet though, that you will not post anything of the sort. Rather, you will continue to hide and to try to convince people that your side of the plagiarism debate is the one that most (haha) people are on. That is so false that I can't even believe you would try to pass that off. The small group that speaks out here on FFF is in no way representative of the views of the mass populace. Regardless, if you really believe in yourselves, I say once again, show your confidence. Prove it. Post your stuff. Post a link to it. (more importantly, put it where I can see it) See how long it lasts. Obviously you can't give up.
----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well. This has been excruciating.
My thoughts--a lot of this could have been avoided by simply being polite. Whether the original material was hers or not, Nia went to the trouble of putting it together and from the sounds of it, probably poured a lot of herself into the project. Granted, there were avenues she should have taken that would have saved a lot of grief on all sides. Nevertheless, where emotional investments of fans are concerned, it pays to be polite. I bet if Nia had been asked nicely and Succatash explained the need to share Firefly fandom with others, permission would have been given and happily.
Considering the average waistline of fandom in general, it's a sure bet the sensitive types who shop in the larger sizes have been thoroughly alienated from continuning any and all association with Firefly fandom. We'll also be seeing more timid fans from this point on--those willing to watch, but not do. If I'm having serious doubts about posting artwork (and that's anywhere, not just here), I can't be the only one. As evidenced here, creative people are ultra emotional, and emotional people can become easily gun shy.
Unfortunately, this thread is a sign of the beginning of the end for Firefly fandom. At the very least, it will be held up by others as an example of what not to do.
I can feel my heart breaking all over again, and there really isn't that much of it left.
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME