Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 11 of 22
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She resolved the situation successfully with her ISP and keep her domain running, because she did nothing wrong, unlike Succatash.
So she was/is not hosting copyrighted material for which she does not have expressed permission to do so?
What I do not understand is the refusal for vidder so see that what they are doing is illegal and to accept that. One moment you are defending your work and the other you are burying it in the backyard. (and I know we will never agree on this, I just find it strange)
Actually I have thought about it and think I know why I still feel vidders are not entitled to ownership. I think it has to do with me being a student and thinking about ownership as plagerism. To point out DEBCHAN's arguement that the two originals are not hers but the final product is, I would argue that two thesi (sp?) (plural of thesis) I did not write, but cut and pasted together with no original imput, besides deciding which sentences went where, would not be acceptable as being my own creation, rather I would be expelled. I guess I just see intellecutal work as being more important than cutting and pasting. (I'm rambling and yes I know viding is more than cutting and pasting)
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger
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Out of faint curiosity, where is this FF community? is it here on Fireflyfans.net? On the official Firefly boards? Because I'm really active in FF and the general consensus wherever I look is waaay on the side of the vidders keeping control of their works.
So I'm just curious.
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> As I understand it, someone created something (using material created by others, but that doesn't matter, it's still hard work). Someone else took it. The first person asked "Please don't do that." The second person said "Screw you. You suck. I'll do what I want."
> Is that about it?
Yep, that about sums up Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday.
Thanks for posting, TallGuy.
Elke
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> There is never an excuse for a fan-artist to get upset over the distribution of thier art.
That is so far from being correct that I don't even know where to begin teaching you anything.
Do you write? Vid? Draw? Paint? Sculpt? Because I'm having a really hard time believing that anyone who actually creates this could take the stance you're presenting.
And it's not about getting recognition. As has been said before in either this thread or the other related one on these boards, it's about vidder self-preservation, keeping the liberty to continue to make vids.
If you've read both of these threads and you still don't understand that, TragicStory, then I don't think anything I say further, no matter how sensible, simplified, rational or polite I might be, will convince you otherwise.
By your posts here, you now share the blame for forcing vidders and other fannish creative artists underground, off the net, and away from Firefly.
Elke
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Would be because you are wrong. A lawerly type person has assured me that:
(a) violation of copyright is not theft. Theft has a very specific legal meaning and copyright violation isn't it. Therefore, to argue that fans are 'stealing' from TPTB is, quite simply, wrong in law.
(b) that each fan-vidder, fanfiction writer, fan-artist etc who produces a new derivative work also holds the copyright in that work. They probably can't exploit that copyright but it doesn't stop it from existing.
If you would like to dispute this, I'd be interested in seeing your reasonings, other than 'It is on my computer.'
All these things have been stated time after time, and it would see that 'your' community simply doesn't want to look at the facts as they are listed. Time and again these things have been said and ignored. Look upward at the post on the 'Berne Convention'.
I'm sorry if you don't want to accept that you don't own everything on your computer, but what you are saying is akin to sitting in a chair in MY house and declaring it is yours because you are sitting in it.
And thank you to the person above for inviting us out of this community because we are new, but it was my understand that YOU don't own THIS. If and when the owners ask me to leave, I will be happy to do so.
Unlike some people.
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> You "vidders" have screwed up because you are more worried about your fame and personal glory then you are saving Firefly.
Once again, Succatash, you are completely and utterly missing the point.
You are confusing self-preservation with fame. You are confusing artistic expression with a save-the-show campaign. And frankly, you've been downright insulting to me and others while you're at it.
I've read back over these two threads very carefully, and I've confirmed something I noticed before and didn't want to comment on... but now I'm thinking it ought to be said out in the open:
When you thought I was a man, you were willing to insult my intelligence. When you thought I was a woman, suddenly you began insulting my weight, my sex life, my snack foods of choice. Bottom line on that? I think you're unwilling to admit in a public forum that you might be wrong and a woman might be right. You are unwilling to admit that any women might know more about fannish culture and the production of artistic works in your favorite show's fandom than you do.
Personally, I hope that every single Firefly fansite that is brought down by choice of its maintainers is replaced with a simple text page pointing right back to this thread and the other one here, because it's blazingly clear that no fannish creation is safe from people like you.
I hope that every single site that gets password protected, every single piece of fannish art that's not shared openly by its creator, has a big sign on the splash page for the restricted site saying "People like Succatash made this restriction necessary, because he has no respect whatsoever for artists or other fans."
Neither you nor ManiacNumberOne has ever answered a single question I posed in my posts here. You've been insulting in nearly every response to every person posting whom you assume is a woman and who disagrees with you. From what I've seen of your posts, I don't think you'll ever understand what you're really doing here, what you're accomplishing in the wider context of fannish culture.
You are driving Firefly fandom and vidding in general underground, if not killing it outright... because you can't see beyond yourself to any larger picture or consequences.
If this makes you happy, go right ahead and continue posting bile-filled rants and insults, threats to report fannish artists to any of their ISPs or any of the copyright holders of the show. Go right ahead convincing the majority of the people reading this discussion board that you are a self-centered egotistical fool who is unwilling to educate himself or listen to others when they try to present real information. Go right ahead betraying the base of fannish creators who would have been perfectly willing to be the public relations people for your precious campaign to save your favorite show had you shown one ounce of clue or respect for their work. Go right ahead. Right now I'm seeing you as one step below pond scum on the evolutionary ladder, and I hope I never encounter anyone like you in any other fandom.
Elke
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Quote:
Originally posted by elketanzer:
> There is never an excuse for a fan-artist to get upset over the distribution of thier art.
That is so far from being correct that I don't even know where to begin teaching you anything.
Do you write? Vid? Draw? Paint? Sculpt? Because I'm having a really hard time believing that anyone who actually creates this could take the stance you're presenting.
And it's not about getting recognition. As has been said before in either this thread or the other related one on these boards, it's about vidder self-preservation, keeping the liberty to continue to make vids.
If you've read both of these threads and you still don't understand that, TragicStory, then I don't think anything I say further, no matter how sensible, simplified, rational or polite I might be, will convince you otherwise.
By your posts here, you now share the blame for forcing vidders and other fannish creative artists underground, off the net, and away from Firefly.
Elke
SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR FANNING ANYTHING LET ALONE FIREFLY. THEN I WILL BELIEVE THAT IT IS FOR SELF PRESERVATION.
And yes, I have done vids and I have no clue where they are now because I don't care who sees them. I don't host them and REALLY doubt anyone could trace it to me, let alone PROVE I created it. Fanning can survive by hosting it on a p2p program for 3 days then erasing it off your computer. If it is good it gets circulated, if not, it doesnt.
Unless you are dumb enough to host your own stuff on the internet or put your real name and social security # in the vid itself, the chances of you getting caught are very slim to none. Not to mention the fact that no one would press charges even if they did catch you. Civil court maybe, doubtful, but maybe.
My posts supports the sharing of all fan-stuff. I am not the ones running for the hills pulling stuff off the internet because I am afraid of a non existant menace. Niether is saccutash. Aparently the true menace is the mob which is after us for having different views.
I am also not the idiot who walked up and handed someone a VCD so I would appreciate it if you didn't treat me as if I were.
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger
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SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR FANNING ANYTHING LET ALONE FIREFLY. THEN I WILL BELIEVE THAT IT IS FOR SELF PRESERVATION.
They don't. They get cease and desist letters and dozens of people are forced to take their sites offline.
Don't believe me? Ask X-Files, Buffy, any Anne Rice fansite, to name a few. It's not about getting arrested, it is about getting BUSTED, which isn't the same.
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Here you go:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger
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so in short if they were to put it on a p2p or server/client program then it would not happen. Problem solved.
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger
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