Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 9 of 22
TragicStory wrote:
"So then you turn around and hand him in to the same people you are trying to hide from. That is backstabbing plain and simple."
That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?
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Quote:
There is never an excuse for a fan-artist to get upset over the distribution of thier art.
I beg your pardon?
So...what your saying is, anyone, who does ANY type of fan art should just let anyone take it?
So all the people who do photomanips, all the artists who draw pictures for a show, all that is free for you to grab and do with what you will?
I hate to tell you this, but that is not only seriously rude, it's a good way to get blackballed from fandom. (And the artist can and will get your website taken down if you don't remove it, and I don't blame them. They DO own the copyright on their work)
Don't you get it? The reason fans have their own sets of rules for the way things go is because if you piss off the artists, fanvidders, etc. THEY DON'T MAKE MORE. They go to other fandoms who have more respect and make vids and art for them.
WAKE UP!! Due to their petty ranting and name calling, all the people who were making vids have stopped. A few people have taken down their fic archives. All because a few people didn't know the meaning of manners and respect.
You can argue till your blue in the face as to whether or not those guys were right or wrong. Who cares?? The point is, those vids are gone, gone, gone and they aren't coming back. And neither will there be more.
It really is a shame but oh, well. Hope the vidders come to MY fandom, where we respect our artists.
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Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:Quote:
With online vids you're getting something for free; this doesn't mean you get to dictate what that something is, how it's presented, or how it's controlled.
Why not?
I am sure that the producers of every show would argue the same thing about fan-art in whatever form.
Do you honestly expect that because you personally have put hours into something it should be treated differently than everything else? It truely seems hypocrytical that you belive your works are entitled to special consideration when they are in fact stolen ideas. You, me, we are thieves. We break a dimond necklace and ruby broach to make a jeweled crown. Does that make the crown ours? No.
We are not entitled to complain about what other people do with it especially when all that person is doing is exhibiting and sharing your "art" with other people.
I think I should remind you of the fan-subbers motto: "For fans, by fans. If you have paid for this, you have been cheated."
There is never an excuse for a fan-artist to get upset over the distribution of thier art.
Yes. Yes I do think that if I put hours into creating something I should have a say. My fiction may be based on characters someone else created, but the work itself is mine. My vids may be created using source material I didn't shoot and produce myself, but the finished product is mine. And if I say "Don't archive my fiction without my permission" or "Don't give a copy of my vid to somone connected to the show" I expect that to be respected.
Your fansub analogy falls apart when you bring up the exchange of money. No one here charged money for their vids. No one is making a profit. Vids are truly a labor of love, and in fact, COST the vidder money (computer, cables, hard drives, capture card, software, web hosting, bandwidth) and time. Vidders expect nothing in return except control over where their vids end up and some common courtesy. That's ALL.
I honestly don't know what you're trying to accomplish by telling fan artists that they are hypocrites and thieves and should shut up and let their work pass out of their control because they owe it to fandom. It does nothing but make them resolve to never do anything creative in this fandom again. It does me, anyway.
Oh, just FYI? TPTB are well aware of fan fiction, vids and other fan art. They know it helps promote the show and MOST of them turn a blind eye. But when it's shoved in their face, they have no choice but to react. If you've read the entire thread, you should have seen that the vids came off the net for good reason; someone gave a VCD of them to Nathan Fillion. The vidders found out and reacted in the only way they could to protect themselves. They pulled them off the net. Chances are that once things cooled down, they would have come back. But they won't now.
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debchan wrote:
"My vids may be created using source material I didn't shoot and produce myself, but the finished product is mine."
It is not yours. And don't forget about the audio you stole, too. The reason the vids have come down is become no one wants to get busted.
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I really don't have much to contribute worth reading, but I am disappointed that talented vidders are questioning whether or not to post their work. I enjoyed the Firefly vids I've seen so far, and have a lot of respect for the work that's been done. I respect your decision to take them down and hope that some day you'll be able to confidently post them again.
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I have to admit I'm a bit confused. Was the request by the creators to not mirror/host the file, or to not even link to it? I think it's a pretty well established tradition on the Internet (not just among fanfic writers/vidders) to not mirror content without permission (after all, how would Haken and FireSpy feel if people started posting copies of the unaired episode scripts everywhere?) and there are good reasons for that, but it's also generally understood that you are free to link to anything you want -- if you've made it's available on the Internet, you shouldn't complain if people see it and link to it. If the concern is only about the hosting, then I understand, but the reason I ask about the linking is that some of the arguments have to do with excessive distribution or promotion of the content attracting unwanted attention (e.g. from lawyers) which would seem to apply equally to both hosting and linking to the vids.
By the way, I know emotions are running high here, particularly because both 'sides' believe they are acting out of good intentions and both sides feel hurt and 'betrayed', but I don't think name calling is necessary or helpful. Let's try to keep it civil.
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You know, I asked before, and no one answered. Does the site owner here have permission to use the images, scripts and video files I see linked all over the place? Well? No? Then it appears s/he's stealing too.
And you know what? If s/he decided tomorrow that it was too big of a risk to keep doing it and they came down, no one would have a right to tell her/him otherwise.
You're right. No one wants to get busted. And now, thanks to you, there won't be anymore "stealing"! Good job! Everyone, thank Succatash for getting all those nasty vids off the net and tanking your fandom.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
It is not yours. And don't forget about the audio you stole, too. The reason the vids have come down is become no one wants to get busted.
Dear me, you are hilarious. Acting all indignant and concerned about the Rights of the Studio when you are the one who refused to take the vids down from YOUR website in the first place.
If you were really that high and mighty, dear, you wouldn't have put them on your server to begin with. I'm terribly amused by your utter lack of courtesy and your gall in explaining it.
I simply don't understand why you persist in claiming no one has rights to their own work when people have posted fannish rules, legal rules and whatever else they can that proves you wrong.
Exactly what would it take for you to understand that you are but a few arguing this point when almost the entire fannish world shows you are wrong?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
I have to admit I'm a bit confused. Was the request by the creators to not mirror/host the file, or to not even link to it?
The vids were taken and put directly on another persons server. They were not linked to. And while another person was polite enough to remove said content when the creator asked, the other person refused. That's what started the scuffle.
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Personally, I don't see the point in arguing anymore. Succatash doesn't think he's wrong, and not a one of us is gonna change his mind. Oh, and I agree with Shiny. No need to be callin people names.
Johnny H.-
"How'd you like a bite outta this green apple, America?"
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