Best. Villain. Ever.
POSTED BY: MikeyMo
UPDATED: Monday, December 16, 2024 19:59
VIEWED: 36074
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I can't even think about the best villains because people have called Jaime Lannister and Holtz villains -NOOOOOOOOO
Holtz is never a villain, merely misguided. He was always trying to do the best, Angel was a vampire guys! Grrrrrr (I love Angel but he was never anything other than a bastard whether human, vampire or vampire with soul!)
As for Jaime Lannister, ok so he tried to kill a 7 year old boy and he did some really mean things in his youth but in the last book he became a good guy. I reckon he is gonna fall for Brienne and get himself into all sorts of trouble.
All this talk has reminded me of two awesome villains: Diana from V and Servalan from Blakes 7. Now they were bad guys!
extremely dimensionally transcendental
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
I can't even think about the best villains because people have called Jaime Lannister and Holtz villains -NOOOOOOOOO
Holtz is never a villain, merely misguided. He was always trying to do the best, Angel was a vampire guys! Grrrrrr (I love Angel but he was never anything other than a bastard whether human, vampire or vampire with soul!)
Sorry, I gotta disagree. Holtz wanted to kill the Vampire. He wanted justice, but he lost sight of his quest for justice and sought vengence. Vengence can never be satisfied and can never lead anywhere good. His blinding thirst for vengence took away his humanity & made him nothing more than another monster. His death is all about one thing hurting Angel more & everyone around him.
A very real thread of many of the Angel story arcs is all about redemption. Holtz never finds it. He dies in his vengence, and the only blood on his hands is his own. He was misguided till he knew the truth, Then he made a decision, at that point he became a villain.
Just giving my point of view.
"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion
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--- I'm thinking we'll rise again.
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gorram it, that is such a reasoned argument it is hard to disagree with...but...(there is always a but)...
I suppose it is about your definition of evil. You see in my book somebody can only truly be evil if they have all their mental faculties and deliberately set out to hurt those who do not deserve it. I find it very hard to think of genuinely evil people (real or fictional), I try to see the good in everyone. (This is sometimes dangerous and is often best left unsaid.)
You see, Holtz was not only a bit cuckoo but Angel really did deserve it, when all said and done. Nearly everyone can be redeemed but only a few are given the chance.
extremely dimensionally transcendental
Temporarily amended to read...ALAN
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Holtz was evil in a very calculating way. He wanted to ensure that Angel felt the same pain that was inflicted on him. Because he could not forgive and move on, he became Angelus(sp?) It's all about the pain....
Angelus was pretty evil when he went bad and said all those awful things to Buffy after they had sex. That was every teenage girl's worst nightmare.
Okay, I digress. Top three:
1. Cruella Divil (she killed Dalmation puppies for Pete sake!)
2. Hannible Lecter
3. And from the Whedonverse, I'd have to say, Angelus, because he truely enjoyed inflicting pain.
NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc
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Emma,
I like the way you think. It is all about definition. How interesting to note that more often than not villians are created from victims. I have enjoyed this exchange. This is what I love about FFF.net. It's not about "who's right & who's wrong" but rather what we think and why. Again, you have my respect & appreciation.
"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion
StillShiny's Firefly Fan Shop R.I.P --- I'm thinking we'll rise again.
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Ack! SHAME on me! SHAMESHAMESHAME on me for forgetting Hannibal Lector, and props to dietcoke for putting his name out there. He is the very essence of villainy.
I also tend to separate mere bad guys from VILLAINS. A villain, at least in my book, needs charisma and a lot of it. He needs to be someone who, although you know he's evil and all, you can't help but root for just a little bit. So Dr. Lector has just jumped to the top of my list -- OK, just under Scorpius. 'Cause I love me some Scorpy.
The sidebar as to whether Holtz is truly evil is very interesting. It's almost entirely a matter of timing, from my perspective: In Holtz's time, he couldn't be considered anything other than a soldier on the side of good. Motivated by something less than pure, to be sure, but there was no question as to what side he was on. But stick him and his lust for vengence 200 years into the future, and now he's "bad". I enjoy the fact that Holtz had a perfectly legitamite point of view, in which his actions were perfectly justified (well, up until the end of S3).
I guess I'd say that Holtz turned EVIL when he saw that he was losing Connor to Angel and pulled the old fake-out with Justine. That's pretty hard to justify. But I'll always remember something Connor said in Season 4:
"My fath -- Holtz was a good man. He just wanted to see you get the punishment you deserved."
"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann
Edited to add: ALAN!
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A lot of the villains mentioned are scary, but you could still reason with them in some way or another.
The Alien, on the other hand, will eat you. If you try to fight back, it will bleed acid on you and then eat you. That scares the pants off me.
Pennywise the Clownwill rip your arm off and eat your soul. And also, clowns are evil in a general sense. So one that freely embraces his evil is just that much worse.
Okay, so Aku isn't really that scary, but he is hilarious. And he would be scary if you lived in crazy future Samurai Jack land.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
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Quote:
Again, you have my respect & appreciation.
Aww, shucks
You are definitely right about the villain as victim, all the best (and the worst) are!
extremely dimensionally transcendental
Temporarily amended to read...ALAN
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What about The Thing from The Thing?
-----------------------
I'll rape you to death.
I'll eat your flesh.
I'll sew your skin into my clothes.
If you're very very lucky, I'll do it in that order - TheReaver
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Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
A lot of the villains mentioned are scary, but you could still reason with them in some way or another.
The Alien, on the other hand, will eat you. If you try to fight back, it will bleed acid on you and then eat you. That scares the pants off me.
Pennywise the Clownwill rip your arm off and eat your soul. And also, clowns are evil in a general sense. So one that freely embraces his evil is just that much worse.
Okay, so Aku isn't really that scary, but he is hilarious. And he would be scary if you lived in crazy future Samurai Jack land.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
What's even more scary is that impregnants you and grows inside you and then pops out of your chest. First time I saw that in the movie theater I got up right then and walked out. Tooooooo scary.
NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc
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