The Reavers equate to Native Americans?

POSTED BY: Novagrass
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 00:00
VIEWED: 9834
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NOVAGRASS

Saturday, June 8, 2002 8:40 PM

If Firefly is indeed a Space Western, am I to presume that the Reavers are the space-age equivalent of Native Americans?

That's an interesting concept, I think. Are the Reavers going to be treated as mindless savages? I don't think they will... I think they'll be given some interesting impulses to their savageness. Maybe they'll be given an interesting cultural system.

Yet another potentially interesting aspect of Firefly, I think. What do you all think?

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

... I guess it's a Joss thing...

SHAMUS

Saturday, June 8, 2002 9:18 PM

Man, I hope not! If we thought The Great Lesbian "Cliche" generated a lot of negative attention, think what that would do. *shudder*

I think the Reavers would be analogous to folks like the James Gang, who were left rootless and wild by the war.

Nothings exceeds like excess.

NOVAGRASS

Saturday, June 8, 2002 9:55 PM

I just bring it up because I *love* native American culture. The depths and intricacies of their culture is fascinating. At first, there were many hostile NAs... trying to protect their lands from the "evil" of the white man. I think that if the Reavers are indeed what the Native Americans are to American history, it would further develop the "there are no good and no bad guys in this story" theme that Joss&Co. seem to be running with. The Reavers might be trying to protect their "land," albeit with a lot of scary hostility, and not *simply* the savages the crew and their society believe them to be.

That's just an idea, I guess... I think it would be interesting, though.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

... I guess it's a Joss thing...

SHAMUS

Saturday, June 8, 2002 10:17 PM

Yeah, NA people be very, very cool. I'm right next to Ojibwa Nation land (share a property line). Inherently mellow folks who you really, really don't want to P*ss Off. It's an interesting combination.

Nothings exceeds like excess.

PANDORA

Saturday, June 8, 2002 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
Man, I hope not! If we thought The Great Lesbian "Cliche" generated a lot of negative attention, think what that would do. *shudder*

The Great Lesbian "Cliche"?

Before I launch into a rather long and possibly unnecessary neo-feminist rambling, maybe you could explain?

Pandora

"Logic is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't beat actual thought." -Terry Pratchett, the Last Continent

SHAMUS

Saturday, June 8, 2002 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora:
The Great Lesbian "Cliche"?

Before I launch into a rather long and possibly unnecessary neo-feminist rambling, maybe you could explain?

Many have accused Joss/ME of "punishing" the lesbian relationship by killing Tara. This is talked about as there being a cliche that lesbian relationships bring doom and gloom. ME has defended themselves as treating the couple like any other couple, without regard to orientation.

I agree with the defense, natch.

Nothings exceeds like excess.

PANDORA

Saturday, June 8, 2002 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora:
The Great Lesbian "Cliche"?

Before I launch into a rather long and possibly unnecessary neo-feminist rambling, maybe you could explain?

Many have accused Joss/ME of "punishing" the lesbian relationship by killing Tara. This is talked about as there being a cliche that lesbian relationships bring doom and gloom. ME has defended themselves as treating the couple like any other couple, without regard to orientation.

I agree with the defense, natch.

Natch.

Sorry to jump to the defensive, but I feel that Tara and Willow's love has been the most honest, non-political, non-sensational portrayal of a lesbian relationship on television ever, so I get kind of adamant about it.

As far as the Reavers are concerned, I think it would be very interesting to see them tackle a 'bad guy' from a perspective that creates a parallel to Native Americans, despite potential flak. What's probably good though is that I doubt the writers would ever make the correlation outright (or at least, not until the show had built up some steam).

JMO, though.

Pandora

"Logic is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't beat actual thought." -Terry Pratchett, the Last Continent

ZICSOFT

Saturday, June 8, 2002 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
Many have accused Joss/ME of "punishing" the lesbian relationship by killing Tara. This is talked about as there being a cliche that lesbian relationships bring doom and gloom. ME has defended themselves as treating the couple like any other couple, without regard to orientation.

I don't know about "many", and "punishing" is probably too strong. Basically, JW stands accused of recycling a standard Hollywood storyline, where some evil/troubled person seduces a good/troubled person into a relationship. No Good Can Come of This. Eventually the evil/troubled person dies (usually by her own hand) and the good/troubled person returns to People Who Really Love Her and Lives Happily Ever After.

The thing that ties evil/troubled to good/troubled is usually adultery:

http://www.tvguide.com/movies/database/ShowMovie.asp?MI=12541

But sometimes it's lesbianism:

http://www.tvguide.com/Movies/database/ShowMovie.asp?MI=12463

Some writers have tried to squeeze the Willow/Tara story into this mold. As Pandora points out, this is a very positive portrayal of a lesbian relationship. I'm not suprised that people see a hidden agenda in having it end so violently.

But the logic just isn't there. Tara wasn't just "Willow's Girl Friend". She was a person that became loved and trusted by most of the other characters -- who are all shown feeling some hurt at losing her.

This will all go away, in Season 7, since they obviously mean to continue treating Willow as a gay character. In fact, if you consider some of the hints the writers have dropped.... No, I won't go there.

SHAMUS

Sunday, June 9, 2002 12:54 AM

Zicsoft's explaination of "Great Lesbian Cliche" much better than mine. With footnotes!

Nothings exceeds like excess.

TLSMITH1963

Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:19 PM

I'm only just starting to watch Buffy (Season 1 on DVD), but I had heard already that Willow is a lesbian. It seems like they were dropping clues right from the beginning because in an early episode Xander says that Willow always gives him good advice on how to treat a woman. He also says that she is like a guy, which is stereotypical, but there you go!

Tammy

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