Capitalism and Firefly
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 16:21
VIEWED: 10053
PAGE 4 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Watch The Corporation. I think there's lots in there that you aren't aware of. Capitalism isn't the shining star of perfection that you make it out to be.
I'm going to look for this one. I've heard it's quite good.
There's got to be some way to separate free market capitalism from corporate capitalism. It's frustrating that the basic elements of a free economy are almost always tied to corporate excesses, as though it were a package deal. In my opinion, the legal framework of corporate law (limited liability, and the bevy of legal 'fictions' that accompany it), violates the basic ideas of the free market.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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As the seller he has the right to sell it for what ever he feels the value of the comic is.
Alright, first things first, while you do have a valid point about value and capitalism, you don't know the guy who runs the comic shop, I do, I live in the city where this happened.
First off, Patchy (as I will call him, leaving names out for obvious reasons) is a dick. The guy doesn't know how to run a business first off, he lost my business a long time ago because of this.
Second thing is he doesn't mark up his product reasonably, he gouges his customers and doesn't care that his business is getting ruined because of it.
Third, he could have easily gotten Nathan Fillion to autograph some other Firefly merchandise he has in the store and GIVEN him the comic, getting something more in return for a simple gesture.
All that said, I think Nathan was justified in his reaction to the scene that was caused. A three dollar comic (Canadian) with nearly a 700% markup, just cause it is the last copy in the store is a bunch of bs. Patchy just wanted to cause a scene and was hoping to seem like the better person for having stiffed Nathan. I can tell you now, that any and all Firefly fans in my city will no doubt have stopped giving Patchy their patronage, as his actions were less than honorable. I said my piece, stated my opinion and now I sit back to watch.
Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend, inside a dog it's too dark to read.
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I believe yours is a mute point. 
Quote:
I said my piece, stated my opinion and now I sit back to watch
I don't think anyone is going to argue against anything you've said.
Ours is a discussion of the wider issue.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her.
--W.C. Fields
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Like I said, I stated my opinion and made my point . Capitalism isn't something I'm fond of, because it breeds situations like what happened to Nathan Fillion. And there is little I can do to avoid Capitalism in todays day and age, but what I can do, I do with a passion, like avoiding Warp 1 Comics. Greed is a product of civilization, anyone who argues this needs to have their heads examined. Capitalism is in my opinion the chief factor of greed, and one we have brought upon ourselves. To complain without trying to change what we have wrought with our ambitions is pointless and a waste of time. All that said, I'm sure everyone would like a change from Capitalism to something a little more sane and incouraging for social growth.
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Why dont people look at this from the sellers prospective. No one complains when they can buy stuff super cheep online ( sometimes pennies above cost.) yet when something is in demand and the price goes up, people start complaining? Its called supply and demand.
I mean If you can sell a comic for $20 or sell it for $3 what would you do? Sure Only a hand full of people would pay $20 ( but if you only have a handfull of comics then its ok) If you have 1000 comics no way could you sell them all for $20 you will have to lower your price to move them.
The clerk could have handled the situation WAY better. Nathan had a right to complain about his service. Dont think he had a right to complain about the price. Nathan is in part to blame if him and the rest of the cast wernt so damn good in the show and the movie no one would want the comics and they would be selling for $1 each.
------------------------------------------------
RON GLASS AUTOGRAPHED COMIC COVERS FOR SELL ON MY SITE FOR A LIMITED TIME ( Limited to 258 Copies )
https://258west.com/category/item.php?id=60
Serenity Comics, Action figures, RPG, Books, Trading cards... Everything Serenity can be found at my store.
http://www.bigdamnstore.com
Thanks for you support
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Quote:
Originally posted by DuSeth:
All that said, I'm sure everyone would like a change from Capitalism to something a little more sane and incouraging for social growth.
Like what? Seriously, I'm interested. I've studied the most popular alternatives, the various forms of socialism and such, but I'm not seeing how they avoid the problems we're discussing. They just centralize them. What have you got in mind?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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@SergeantX:
I think that the first part of it is the most interesting. The next 2 parts get such that you can tell the leanings of the creators, but there's still a lot of good info in there; lots of examples.
@Duseth:
Noticed that you just joined, welcome
I pretty much agree with all your points except your opinion that greed is a product of civilization. I would say that it is a product of todays society. To say that it's a product of civilization would discount the possibility of groups of people working without greed as a prime motivator (ie there are tribes in the world that don't run on greed, countries in Europe are basically Socialist, etc).
Please note, I'm still in a fog. So, don't hesitate to tell me if I'm talking nonsence 
For the record, I don't want to completely s**t on capatilism. I think that it is great on the smaller scale for a limited time. The early years of the US is a good example of that.
The problem comes in when you start to cross into a large scale corporate environment, next to no restrictions on busness practices (read: unethical busness practices), etc.
This is a natural evolution of capatilism. The trick is to start making laws that prevent these sort of practices before the corps get any real power; moving in a Socialist direction. That or actually make corps be what they were first in
tended for and actually enforce corp law. Unfortunately, the US is beyond that
point and Socialism has become a dirty word.
So, it'll definitly be an uphill battle, but change for the better is more than possible.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by 258westauthentic:
I mean If you can sell a comic for $20 or sell it for $3 what would you do? Sure Only a hand full of people would pay $20 ( but if you only have a handfull of comics then its ok)
Um, no it's not. It's called ethics.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
The problem comes in when you start to cross into a large scale corporate environment, next to no restrictions on busness practices (read: unethical busness practices), etc.
Agreed. The corps eventually amass enough power and money through the collective wealth of the shareholders that they can bend the government to their will. This problem multiplies when the corporations grow beyond the borders of their home nation. At that point they can pretty much dictate their own regulatory environment.
Quote:
This is a natural evolution of capatilism.
I'm not sure this is neccessarily true. Corporations developed as an alternative to approaching projects generally considered too large for private or individual developers. To encourage this (and, I'm assuming to keep up with countries willing to fund such projects with government money) our legal framework was designed to limit the liability of investors.
The problem with that, is it also limits accountability. If a privately owned business engages in vile practices, the owners can be sued, or even criminally prosecuted for the actions of their company. They can lose everything, even their freedom. In a corporation, the owners (i.e. shareholders) are protected from suffering such consequences. It makes for businesses that can act completely without conscience, while the owners risk nothing more than the money invested. Frequently that isn't even in jeopardy if the company is large and powerful enough to rig a government bailout.
Anyway, I don't see why these things naturally follow from allowing free enterprise. We just have to make sure all business operate under the same rules and quit giving special dispensation to corporations just because it's expedient to do so.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by 258westauthentic:
I mean If you can sell a comic for $20 or sell it for $3 what would you do? Sure Only a hand full of people would pay $20 ( but if you only have a handfull of comics then its ok)
Um, no it's not. It's called ethics.
That's Funny. I dont see people crying when someone buys something below a stores COST becuase they cant get rid of it. It works both ways. Ethics have nothing to do with it. How come the price of Gas, Milk, Water keeps going up? How about Rent in manhattan? Supply and Demand. Its a simple concept. How is people BID things up on Ebay to WAY over their Retail Value? Should the seller say " My God you bid way to much on this item, its retail price is far less. Let me refund the balance.
$20 you say is to High, is it to high for someone who Really wants it and cant find it any where else? How about in 5 years when a 1st print of serenity will be worth $100? I bet $20 will seem like a steal then. Wake up from this dream world you live in and open your eyes to the real life. Go back to school and learn about supply and demand.
------------------------------------------------
RON GLASS AUTOGRAPHED COMIC COVERS FOR SELL ON MY SITE FOR A LIMITED TIME ( Limited to 258 Copies )
https://258west.com/category/item.php?id=60
Serenity Comics, Action figures, RPG, Books, Trading cards... Everything Serenity can be found at my store.
http://www.bigdamnstore.com
Thanks for you support
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