Capitalism and Firefly

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 16:21
VIEWED: 10053
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CHRISISALL

Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tiger:
So, if I have a choice between a jerk who wants to charge too much for a comic book that I can refuse to buy, and a Stalin or Il-Sung, I'll take the jerk.

That certainly is lookin' at the small and large of it in the same sentance, all right.

Polar Chrisisall

SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tiger:

So, if I have a choice between a jerk who wants to charge too much for a comic book that I can refuse to buy, and a Stalin or Il-Sung, I'll take the jerk.

This is an extremely unfair comparison.

A more oranges to oranges comparison would be, a choice between the Stalin's of the world and people who'll sell out other people/work them to death/go to war/etc. all for profit.

So, basically both options are horrible to the people, just one is more subtle than the other (at least to the population in that country).

Both are very unacceptable options. Why are you comparing the extremes of the extremes? Why can't you see that extremes are never the answer? Why can't you see that a middle path would be the best alternative?

Watch The Corporation. I think there's lots in there that you aren't aware of. Capitalism isn't the shining star of perfection that you make it out to be.

One can also make the argument that they both end in the same place for the people. Look at Russia, we have rich people at the top and extremely poor people at the bottom. Look at the US, we have rich people at the top and extremely poor people at the bottom. The only reason why there is more poor people in Russia (which mind you is not necesarily true anymore) is that there economy tanked, which mind you, may happen to the US in the relatively near future as well.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,366940,00.html
"""
It didn't used to be that way. The American Dream was once robust and immigrants really did make it. As late as 1960, we were the most middle class and most egalitarian of all the OECD developed nations. We now rank 24th among industrial nations in income disparity -- only Russia and Mexico rank lower. That's disgraceful and most Americans would be shocked if you told them that. Barely 51 percent of Americans believe in the American Dream according to a Ford Foundation survey. One-third say they don't believe in the dream at all, which is devastating because that's the social glue, that's what binds us together, much more than Wall Street or Washington or even the US constitution.
"""

Hmmm...

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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:07 PM

@ChrisIsAll:
Yes, I'm saying Mr. Fillion did the right thing. I've done the same thing with my friends when a store/company/etc done me wrong (UPS I'm looking at you!). Mr. Fillion is just better at it than I am.

@SergeantX:
My suggestion would be to move far away from the fringe to the middle. Creating some laws that would prevent corps from screwing the people would be good as well. Not to mention getting rid of all the company specific tax laws.

Interestingly enough, my wife has told me that the next instalment in the series I posted above (Monday I believe) is going to be a comparison of European and US economies. Should be an interesting read.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

SERGEANTX

Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
My suggestion would be to move far away from the fringe to the middle. Creating some laws that would prevent corps from screwing the people would be good as well. Not to mention getting rid of all the company specific tax laws.

I'm curious what you consider 'the fringe', but we seem to be on the same page. Personally, I've never seen corporate law, at least as it exists today, as consistent with free market ideology. Corporations operate under an entirely different set of rules and responsibilities than privately owned companies. Nothing 'free' or 'fair' about it.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, July 31, 2005 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:

I'm curious what you consider 'the fringe'

Basically, extremes. Capatilism or the form of it that the US has breeds very bad things; people get screwed all the time. I'm just saying, move to a moderate place. B/c, as you say, there's nothing free or fair about it.

If you want, I can try a better explination later. Right now I'm about to fall over tired.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

DAIKATH

Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:36 AM

Bah, there is nothing more irritating then reading a thread. Really want to share something and then watch the thread go into an entirely different direction wherein the emotion/story/argument you want to share is irrelevant to the discussion

CHRISISALL

Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:08 PM

Feel free to bring it back on topic.

Moderator Chrisisall

SERGEANTX

Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:01 PM

No kidding Daikath, fire away!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

DAIKATH

Sunday, July 31, 2005 6:30 PM

Well I live in The Netherlands (better known as Holland though we only call it that way for ignorant foreigners). With the euro a whole lot of poeple took advantage of the confusion among poeple.

We all had to get used to a new currency and stuff in stores had different price tag to it. A lot of poieple and stores (even the government at a lot of places) took advantage of our initial confusion with new numbers on everything and have gotton away with raising the price on a lot of stuff. (The government denis this as they are saving their ass, pointing out the prices only rose after that. But the stores were smart enough to raise the prices as soon as we didnt think anymore in our old currency).

Long story short, especially in bars everything is much more expensive. I'd like to find some cheaper spots but I have only found them in fastfood (Kentucky Fried Chicken and some privately owned Turkish Fast food places are the only ones asking a reasonable price). For bars the cheaper places I could visit instead are just not there. Poeple visit them less often now too, but the prices won't go down.

I just now refuse to spend the kind of money bars are asking now. But I still live with my parents so drinking at home isn't a real option either.

So okay after all this ranting I finally make my point. Despite all of the theory behind capatalism I can't find a place to drink nowadays. If I could find a place that won't ask the price of a bottle for a glass I would go there and celebrate that there is such a place. But there isn't.

In theory I support the free market, but this is getting ridiculous over here.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, July 31, 2005 6:38 PM

That's kind of what Sigma was getting at. Consumers must have a decent level of awareness for market 'forces' to have much affect. If you can fool enough of them things get wonky.

Do you know anyone with enough cash to open a bar? Might be a good time to undercut the high prices with something more reasonable. There are probably other people like you out there, refusing to pay the higher prices.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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