Firefly Music Videos - Download Now

POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 7 of 22

PREV PAGE 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 NEXT PAGE

RENENET

Saturday, April 19, 2003 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
...we can't just arbitrarily give the right to make the decisions away to a few people who have decided how they would like it to be. Since this whole premise of owning your fanvid is something that it doesn't sound like anyone is going to budge on, we need to introduce new, more compelling reasons why we are right, or we need to let it die.

Here is the impasse, as I see it.

I believe that Joss has the rights to Firefly. (let's just leave Fox and Mutant enemy and whoever else out of it for some simplicity)
You all believe that you have the rights because you changed Joss's format around.

Now, if we are in the world, then no matter where we go, the laws of copyright apply. If we decide to suspend them, and make our own set of rules, as it appears you wish to do here, in this case, with this video; then the rules you make could be anything. I would rather continue to use the normal set of rules which society has set down for ordering of intellectual property.

Hi, Maniac. I'm going to try to offer a "new, more compelling reason" in support of the folks who believe that vidders have rights to their vids even though the source material belongs to Joss et al. In the world we live in there is a set of rules agreed to by most countries called the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. (See http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/berne/index.html)

Article 2, section 3 on derivative works reads:
(3) Translations, adaptations, arrangements of music and other alterations of a literary or artistic work shall be protected as original works without prejudice to the copyright in the original work. http://www.wipo.int/clea/docs/en/wo/wo001en.htm#P83_10463

This basically means that the issue of permissions for adapting copyrighted works is quite separate from the issue of copyright protection for the derivative work produced, which itself is entitled to copyright protection.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not U.S. law, but rather an international treaty signed by the U.S. that provides governing priciples for copyright law. I am referring to it in an attempt to show you that vidders are not making up their own arbitrary rules regarding their rights to their productions. The views expressed here by Nia, Bonibaru, Elketanzer and others line up very nicely with the principles of the Berne Convention, a set of rules regarding copyright in our world.

Personally, I think the point that Silviakundera just made about longstanding community policies regarding songvideos is an even more compelling argument than quoting the Berne Convention because it emphasizes community practices and understandings. It also just happens to line up with international treaties on intellectual property.

BKTHEIRREGULAR

Saturday, April 19, 2003 10:42 PM

Color me impressed.

To trump international law, you've pretty much got to go to another dimension, no?

Bruce (BK) (the irregular)

MANIACNUMBERONE

Saturday, April 19, 2003 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BKtheirregular:
I have a fanfiction site with Firefly works on it; do I need to yank it off line too? Will I be reported?

Seriously. I need to know.

You should direct your question to Nia and LJC. They reported (along with other's as well, I am now beginning to suspect) to Succatash's ISP that he was hosting copyrighted material. They got him closed down. So it seems they are the ones with the real manacing intent. Worry about them.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Saturday, April 19, 2003 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by renenet:
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
...we can't just arbitrarily give the right to make the decisions away to a few people who have decided how they would like it to be. Since this whole premise of owning your fanvid is something that it doesn't sound like anyone is going to budge on, we need to introduce new, more compelling reasons why we are right, or we need to let it die.

Here is the impasse, as I see it.

I believe that Joss has the rights to Firefly. (let's just leave Fox and Mutant enemy and whoever else out of it for some simplicity)
You all believe that you have the rights because you changed Joss's format around.

Now, if we are in the world, then no matter where we go, the laws of copyright apply. If we decide to suspend them, and make our own set of rules, as it appears you wish to do here, in this case, with this video; then the rules you make could be anything. I would rather continue to use the normal set of rules which society has set down for ordering of intellectual property.

Hi, Maniac. I'm going to try to offer a "new, more compelling reason" in support of the folks who believe that vidders have rights to their vids even though the source material belongs to Joss et al. In the world we live in there is a set of rules agreed to by most countries called the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. (See http://www.wipo.int/treaties/ip/berne/index.html)

Article 2, section 3 on derivative works reads:
(3) Translations, adaptations, arrangements of music and other alterations of a literary or artistic work shall be protected as original works without prejudice to the copyright in the original work. http://www.wipo.int/clea/docs/en/wo/wo001en.htm#P83_10463

This basically means that the issue of permissions for adapting copyrighted works is quite separate from the issue of copyright protection for the derivative work produced, which itself is entitled to copyright protection.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not U.S. law, but rather an international treaty signed by the U.S. that provides governing priciples for copyright law. I am referring to it in an attempt to show you that vidders are not making up their own arbitrary rules regarding their rights to their productions. The views expressed here by Nia, Bonibaru, Elketanzer and others line up very nicely with the principles of the Berne Convention, a set of rules regarding copyright in our world.

Personally, I think the point that Silviakundera just made about longstanding community policies regarding songvideos is an even more compelling argument than quoting the Berne Convention because it emphasizes community practices and understandings. It also just happens to line up with international treaties on intellectual property.

I did not go to the links you provided, yet, but I do know the laws you refer to, and the artist who changes the inital art must do so to a certain degree. That degree is much larger than what is done in this instance.

ELKETANZER

Saturday, April 19, 2003 11:13 PM

> So it seems they are the ones with the real manacing intent. Worry about them.

Just an observation: I didn't see anyone but you threatening to try to put anyone in jail, ManiacNumberOne.

Elke

BKTHEIRREGULAR

Saturday, April 19, 2003 11:17 PM

Apparently Nia's site no longer exists.

As for me?

http://www.neon-hummingbird.com/irregularities/

I'm waiting for the dust to settle.

Bruce (BK) (the irregular)

FFWF

Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:10 AM

I read through this entire thread hoping to find a great controversy. Instead I find 2 guys arguing against everyone in fandom, years of established precedent, and possibly even International law.

You say that Browncoats should stick together and, frankly, they are - except for you two. If there are a ton of Firefly fans coming to your defense, I don't see them.

It seems to me to be a real waste. There are a lot of vidders out there who have netiher the access or the technical ability to host their own vids who would love to find someone to host vids for them. You could have been heroes. Now, it is unlikely that any of those people will trust you with their work.

I see that someone has threatened to contact TPTB. FYI - very bad plan. This is not new ground and has actually been done at least twice that I know of - once in Blake's 7 and more recently in Due South. Both times, the studios landed very hard on the people who were complained about, the people who did the actual complaining, and everyone within a 1,000 mile radius. C&D's for everyone and lawsuits all around. I realize you were probably just trying to make a point but it is one of those things you just plain don't say. If you are in high school, you do not speculate about shooting other students or blowing up the school. If you are in fandom, you don't whine to TPTB.

KAYTHRYN

Sunday, April 20, 2003 12:42 AM

Quote:
Posted by FFWF: You say that Browncoats should stick together and, frankly, they are - except for you two. If there are a ton of Firefly fans coming to your defense, I don't see them.

Here I am! Here I am!

Okay, I told myself I would stay out of it and I’m trying.

Please let it go down that I tried to stay away… but Manic and Succatash are not alone. Well, they are alone on the Twinkie thing, and some mention of Jesus, but I stand with my browncoat brethren.

Vid creators should claim some responsibility and mark their work or password protect it, or something, anything, otherwise accept the fact that their work may be put on other sites without their knowledge. I also think that people should have the courtesy and ask before using work if they know who to ask. And that’s just what Manic did, once he found out who’s piece it was, he asked permission, and when it was denied, he removed the piece.

People, you (including myself) shouldn’t care so much. It’s between Nia and Manic, the rest of us are just blowing off steam and making trouble.

_________________________________________________

Lets talk about something happy now?

And I mean it people, I want to see happy faces!

I’ve been trying to post a new thread for a few days, but something wack because it just wont work. This started because I need some ideas for a little project I‘m working on, but it’s actually kind of funny (well because I personally picture each character singing their own song). Oh! Firefly the musical! That would have been a sight!

So, to the question-

What song would you pick as each Firefly characters theme song? It doesn’t even have to be their theme song, just one that makes you think of them. I’ll start with a few...

Kaylee to Simon- By my lover by Ultimate Dance Party.

Zoë and Wash- A woman’s got the strength by Jennifer Holiday.

Simon about River- I wouldn’t change a thing by Spin (or lighthouse, I'm not sure).

Okay, mine aren’t very good, but that’s why I’m asking you guys.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

DEBCHAN

Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaythryn:

Vid creators should claim some responsibility and mark their work or password protect it, or something, anything, otherwise accept the fact that their work may be put on other sites without their knowledge. I also think that people should have the courtesy and ask before using work if they know who to ask. And that’s just what Manic did, once he found out who’s piece it was, he asked permission, and when it was denied, he removed the piece.

People, you (including myself) shouldn’t care so much. It’s between Nia and Manic, the rest of us are just blowing off steam and making trouble.

Nia's vids were only posted in a friends locked LJ entry. Bonibaru's vids were clearly marked as do not distribute without permission. I have Do Not Archive plastered all over my site. Even so, someone downloaded our vids, burned them on a cd and gave them to Nathan Fillion. Had this someone not been stopped, she would have given them to Joss Whedon as well. Our work was marked, protected, and we thought, safe. When it was obvious that it wasn't, we removed it from our sites. And that's when someone who had Nia's vid decided to host it without her permission. Maniac may have taken the vid down when the request was made, but if I'm following this discussion properly, yet another person didn't. In fact, he declared vids "public domain" and REFUSED Nia's request to remove it, then tried to get her site TOSed.

And I'm sorry, but this is not between just Nia and Maniac. Everyone who has or had a Firefly vid has been affected. Everyone who wants to see a Firefly vid has been affected because the vids are gone and not coming back. Ever. And, judging by the reaction of the vidding community, there will be no more online, if at all, for fear someone will upload them. Sites are coming down because people fear (and rightly so) that someone with a grudge will try to get them TOSed. Your entire fandom has been painted in a black light. Every member of this community SHOULD care.

LJC

Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:59 AM

Quote:
You should direct your question to Nia and LJC. They reported (along with other's as well, I am now beginning to suspect) to Succatash's ISP that he was hosting copyrighted material.

I haven't emailed anyone's ISP.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

PREV PAGE 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 NEXT PAGE