Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 6 of 22
Here's how I see it.
A while back, Woody Allen made a movie based on a Japanese spy thriller; he added a new dubbed script, added some scenes, and came up with "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" A similar thing happened recently with the movie "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist."
To my admittedly imperfect point of view, fan vids do a similar thing. They thus bear a similar relationship to the original material that fanfic bears to authorized written fiction in a canon.
People put in effort - and yes, it is real effort - to make these things. Sometimes they're meant for one person, sometimes they're meant for a small group, sometimes they're meant to be distributed far and wee. The creator of the work makes that call.
Since fandom creative efforts can't rely on the Law to police them - because that would be suicidal to the fandom's creative efforts - it's really up to the society - in this case, the community of creative fans - to police itself.
In this case, that involves courtesy - and the common sense to realize what puts the creative elements of the fandom at risk. A creator has a bad experience and feels it necessary to keep a low profile for a while, to wait for dust to clear so the creator can re-emerge; it's doubtful that it's about an ego trip, and more likely that the creator wants to ensure that at some point, the fan creations will keep coming.
Actions taken in opposition to that may have the best of motives, but one thing must be taken into account: thoughtless actions may result in a doomsday strike by lawyers against the entire creative element of the fandom. Can we at least agree that nobody wants that?
And given that, can we agree that certain rules of ettiquite need to be heeded, lest the rules of the society at large come down upon our heads and destroy us out of hand?
Thank you.
Stepping off the soapbox now...
Bruce (BK) (the irregular)
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
I have a great idea to settle this whole thing.
How about if just I contact Joss Whedon, Fox and/or Mutant Enemy, and ask THEM, if it would be alright to use THEIR copyrighted material?
I would be happy to tell them who appropriated their video footage, without their permission, and decided to cut it up and claim the right to distribute it as their own.
*stares at ManiacNumberOne in stunned silence for a few moments*
Well. That'll settle the issue by making absolutely certain no one ever wants to share a vid in this fandom again. And all this time I thought you wanted to see vids shared. I must admit, I am confused. Please understand, I am not being sarcastic, I would genuinely like an explanation. Do you still want to see the Firefly vids that various people have made or may yet make, or do you not care about those anymore because you're so angry at the things that have been said here?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
If you were thinking that Woody just appropriated that video footage, you are mistaken. He purchased the rights to use it.
(None of what I am talking about refers to any other type of fan work besides fanvids)
I agree that if we are to continue to enjoy fanvids that we need to police ourselves. But that is one of the things we are arguing here (and I feel it's getting ridiculous), and we can't just arbitrarily give the right to make the decisions away to a few people who have decided how they would like it to be. Since this whole premise of owning your fanvid is something that it doesn't sound like anyone is going to budge on, we need to introduce new, more compelling reasons why we are right, or we need to let it die.
Here is the impasse, as I see it.
I believe that Joss has the rights to Firefly. (let's just leave Fox and Mutant enemy and whoever else out of it for some simplicity)
You all believe that you have the rights because you changed Joss's format around.
Now, if we are in the world, then no matter where we go, the laws of copyright apply. If we decide to suspend them, and make our own set of rules, as it appears you wish to do here, in this case, with this video; then the rules you make could be anything. I would rather continue to use the normal set of rules which society has set down for ordering of intellectual property.
Correct me if what I am saying is wrong, but you want to disregard Joss Whedon as the creator of Firefly (by not asking his permission), you want to have the right to chop up his creative work, and you want to be able to post it on a website whenever you want, saying that it is yours. Not only that, you want to tell other people what they can and can't do with that work. (in order to protect your theft)
Is that right?
Here's how society see's it should go down.
Ask Joss Whedon for permission. When he gives it, you can decide what to do with what he has given you. Up until that point, you can want an imaginary set of rules to run your life by as much as you want. But do not ask me to break the law any more. and do not try to include me in your law-breaking system. I will not play your games. How you can delude yourself into believing that stealing is alright, and still call yourself a fan is hard for me to understand. Just because fan is short for fanatic doesn't mean you have to follow the exact meaning of the word.
----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm not in the Fiefly fandom, and I only know what I've seen in this posting board.
But I can't figure out why you're still arguing.
Hey, you won! No one is going to be stealing Joss's work anymore, because no one is going to make vids anymore! All those vids with all that stolen material have been removed from their various IP's, with most of the vid creators declaring that they will NEVER put them back again.
So, hey, congratulations! No one will steal anything again, and it's all thanks to you!
Those few people who you claim are trying to make all the rules? They are the ones who made those vids, and they are the people you are relying on for more. When did the phrase, 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you' go out of style? Whether you're right or not ceased to be important a long time ago. All that's happening now is people are angry and they are pulling all the things you love so much from the 'net.
Bummer about your fandom.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I notice this site has all sorts of copyright material on it; screen captures, scripts, and video files. Does the site owner have permission from Mutant Enemy and Fox?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You know this coulda all been avoided if someone woulda showed some courtesy and just asked to use the vid. What's so hard about asking? Just a quick e-mail on how you would like to use their fanvid on your own website. In my knowledge most sites will be happy to accommodate you. And you could have linked to each other spreading the ring of fan sites and allow for future file sharing.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
When I brought up "Tiger Lily" and "Kung Pow", it wasn't to say that the originals were stolen - but rather to show that taking moving images and doing something new with them involves some creativity.
Now in most cases, when someone puts up fannish content, there's a disclaimer - that the original material is the property of whoever (in this case Joss and Mutant Enemy etc.) - "used without permission and not for profit" is the term I use in my fanfiction disclaimer.
(I bring it back to fanfiction because I have never made a vid for public consumption, never put a vid up on a web site for all to see.)
It's not about claiming that Joss didn't do the original work - that would be dead wrong. But it's not a bright line either - the entire concept of creative fandom exists in the shadows, and applying bright-line rules to the fandom will destroy the creative element.
Let me create a hypothetical example:
I make a vid and send it to someone (let's call them Ace) for their birthday. Ace likes this video and gives a copy to Buddy. Buddy likes it and gives it to Chump, who puts it on CD and hands it to Joss Whedon, who is having a sandwich with his lawyer.
I'll let the imagination fill in the consequences.
This is why people ask - not enforce, but ASK others not to distribute their work without their permission. It's not about enforcing their own claim on that one particular work - it's about preserving their ability to create works in the future.
And the idea of breaking off fanvids from fanfiction - a lot of legal eagles will not make that distinction.
People aren't looking to claim someone else's work as entirely their own - they are looking for a creative outlet.
And as I type, I look at posts and see that they are suffering the catastrophic consequences of sharing the fruits of their efforts.
I have a fanfiction site with Firefly works on it; do I need to yank it off line too? Will I be reported?
Seriously. I need to know.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Viv:
When did the phrase, 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you' go out of style?
I bite the hand that feeds me when that hands slaps me at the same time.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sorta missed the point of what I was saying, didn't you?
Oh, well. It doesn't look like it matters anyway. Your fandom just got flushed down the toilet and you were one of the people who pushed the handle.
Boy, am I glad I didn't watch that show when a friend of mine suggested it.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I agree that if we are to continue to enjoy fanvids that we need to police ourselves. But that is one of the things we are arguing here (and I feel it's getting ridiculous), and we can't just arbitrarily give the right to make the decisions away to a few people who have decided how they would like it to be. Since this whole premise of owning your fanvid is something that it doesn't sound like anyone is going to budge on, we need to introduce new, more compelling reasons why we are right, or we need to let it die.
What you seem to not understand is that songvideos have been around for OVER A DECADE.
There are lists and annual conventions dedicated to songvideos, and many fandom Cons have a special portion dedicated to vids. It has a fandom subculture of its own.
We are not speaking out of our asses here, or making up rules as we go along.
There ARE premises and policies developed in internet fandom as a whole that came about for the people and by the people long before Firefly and long before you ever heard of the idea.
Who are YOU that you can now decide these community policies do not apply to you? What makes you so special and different?
The masses HAVE spoken. Any argument you have has already been weighed and dealt with. You are many, many years too late. Now would you kindly accept a nice tall ladder and use it to get over yourself.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME