Firefly Music Videos - Download Now
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2003 00:31
VIEWED: 56712
PAGE 3 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Shame on you, Nia! Shame on all of you!
No, shame on YOU.
Do you care so little about the Firefly fandom and its reputation? Do you honestly want the word online to be that it's risky to produce Firefly fan material, because it just might be appropriated and all your hard work disregarded and thrown in your face?
Because word travels fast on the net, and already people are expressing worry about sharing with Firefly fans the things they produce. I know that I personally no longer feel comfortable sharing any Firefly vids that I may make. I don't know at this point if I'll ever post any online, or write any Firefly fanfiction.
And that's so sad, because I just discovered the show in the last two weeks and I fell absolutely in love with it. It's sad that these actions have left such a bad taste in my mouth and spoiled what had been, up until now, such a positive experience for me.
If you alienate the people who go about creating these things you love... you won't have any more. It's not terribly complicated logic.
I know that a couple insensitive people do not represent the ethnics and sense of community held by an entire fandom, but all it takes is a few rotten apples to ruin the fun for EVERYBODY.
And the more that people sit on the sidelines and refuse to take a stand against such horrible treatment of fellow fans, the more this problem will grow.
You want a happy community? It's not going to happen by ignoring the problem. It's going to happen by refusing to let people get away with this sort of behavior.
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No, Succatash, the FACT remains that you, a Browncoat, disrespected another Browncoat who actually spent time working on a fannish creation rather than just grabbing it as if it were your own.
The FACT is that you disregarded rational requests to behave yourself like a civilized human being, to ask before taking something, and to give it back when asked.
The FACT is that you have shown no clue whatsoever and no understanding of any single issue involved in this entire mess, and you've been rude about it to boot.
Firefly doesn't deserve fans like you.
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Posted by elketanzer:
"Firefly doesn't deserve fans like you."
I have given my soul to this community, you 
asshole. I want the show back on the air, wake the up and get over yourself.
I do not deserve a comment like that, especially after my site was shut down by Browncoats for posting pro-Firefly material.
I can't belive the impossiblity of this situation.
I stand behind my actions and I am in complete and utter shock by the reaction I am receiving.
Does free-ware editing software and an mp3 ripper turn people into artists, after they've stolen copryrighted material?
It's not about the artist, IT'S ABOUT THE SHOW!
Do not silence the Browncoats! We will fly again!
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> Does free-ware editing software and an mp3 ripper turn people into artists
Yes, just as writing fanfiction turns people into writers. Amateur writers, amateur artists, yes, but writers and artists nonetheless.
I'm sorry you don't comprehend the mistaken assumptions that led to your actions, and the reactions to your actions. I personally believe that you are too caught up in trying to save your favorite cancelled show to think about the repercussions of your actions and the effect they have had and will continue to have on the Firefly fandom.
Believe me, shows have been cancelled before. There have been other campaigns to save shows, and other campaigns to draw more viewers to shows in danger of cancellation.
None of those situations make it OK for you to ignore the requests of someone who loves the show as much or more than you, and who spent time creating a fannish work.
I recognize that you are committed to your favorite show, to the point of pouring heart and soul into being its fan. But that does not excuse your behavior.
Why would any writer, artist, or vidder ever want to show you any work they spent time creating? You cannot be trusted to enjoy it without using it for your own purposes, their own wishes in the matter be damned.
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elketanzer wrote:
grabbing it as if it were your own.
Are you accusing me of grabbing the video and claiming it as my own? Are you totally insane?
If I had claimed it as my own, I wouldn't have put "Thanks to Nia for her great work" under the link.
Whatever happened to promoting the show and getting people involved? You stupid anal bastards are ruining things with your Beverly Hills Secret Rules Club bullshit.
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You were doing whatever you wanted with the vids, not listening to the creator. That means you were acting like you owned the vids.
Thanking someone for their car after you've driven off in it is not gratitude.
Promoting the show and getting people involved does not mean doing whatever you please with other people's fannish work without their permission.
I don't live in Beverly Hills, I never have, and lessons in simple human civility of "ask before you take" and "give it back if it's not yours and the owner asks you for it" are not secrets.
Elke
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Posted by ELKETANZER
"You were doing whatever you wanted with the vids, not listening to the creator. That means you were acting like you owned the vids."
All I did wast post them and give credit to Nia, who made them. So what was she doing? Calling Fox and getting permission? What about the band that supplied the soundtrack? It sounds like Nia stole the footage and did whatever she wanted to with them. She acted like she owns the vids!
Spare me your bullshit.
As a member of this Firefly community, I am pro-actively supporting and promoting the show. And I will continue to do so.
I encourage others to protest the betrayal witnessed on this thread. Serenity will fly again.
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Your attitude is exactly why rational vidders, artists and fanfiction writers will likely never post their songvids in this fandom again anywhere where the public (and you) can see them.
Do you see how that does the Firefly fandom a disservice?
*deep breath*
How long have you been active in fandom? Because it sure sounds like this is all new to you. Let me try to explain more clearly what I'm talking about...
Fanfiction writers, artists and vidders walk a fine line by posting their work on the Internet. Their activities only survive because the copyright and trademark owners are not directly confronted by the infringements.
If the owner of a trademark (either TV show, movie, or music) does not defend their trademark, they can lose it. Defending a trademark means that the owner must actively prosecute anyone who infringes on it, otherwise they are allowing it to become a public property, and are yielding their trademarks, something modern megacorps never want to do.
Just yesterday a well-meaning fan presented a CD of songvids to Nate Fillion, against the expressly stated wishes of at least one of the vidders whose work was on the CD. The fan also intended to give the CD to Joss Whedon, but was stopped in time. This fan apparently never read the requests at the vidders' own websites, though some of the URLs were right in some of the vids. Both the fan and the community where the CDs were suggested and encouraged have since had all of the pertinent issues explained to them, and much hurt feelings were felt all around, both by the well meaning fan and the vidders.
Vidders can only keep from being noticed by lawyers if they can trust other fans to heed their wishes regarding distribution of their songvids.
Otherwise, the vidders risk losing their websites and worse. Cease and Desist orders are darned scary business.
I'm sure you understand how that feels now, even though your site's TOS action doesn't directly involve lawyers at this point.
Please understand that the fan community enjoys the work of many creative fans, who as individuals shoulder a lot of the risk of attracting lawyer-attention. In exchange, the fannish consumers are expected to behave like rational adults, and to understand the issues involved.
If you want to evangelize about your favorite show, that's great, but either do it using your own work, or the work of other fans *who have given you permission* to use theirs.
Do not assume that because a fan has created something and shared it with you that you can do anything you want with it, or the fandom as a whole, the entire community, is harmed.
More information about copyrights and trademarks in regard to fannish vidding, fanfiction and artwork is available... all anyone had to do was talk with any one of the fannish vidders, who were well aware of these issues before creating their vids.
Elke
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Posted by Elketanzer:
If you want to evangelize about your favorite show, that's great, but either do it using your own work, or the work of other fans *who have given you permission* to use theirs.
Elk, my man! It is not "theirs" in the first place, don't you get it?
Are you mentally challenged, my good man? You say above to "use your own work.' This part about "giving permission" is ridiculous, don't you see? It is NOT their material to give away.
Elk: "Use your own material or get permission from the people who stole it"
You don't make sense at all.
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Oh, I didn't "blow the whistle" on you for posting pro-Firefly material. I blew the whistle on you for posting a piece of art (a term I use as loosely and modestly as I can here, but use with full knowledge of its implications nonetheless) that was not your own without the artist's permission.
That's it. Underlying this is a whole set of issues pertaining to fandom, vidding, etc., but that's the core of what you did: took someone else's work and hung it up in your gallery without their permission. Didn't matter that my name was attached, didn't matter that you had good intentions; I had made my position about *asking before posting* (not to mention implying my fairly wary stance on mirroring, which I would have explaine further had you inquired) very clear not many hours earlier, right in your line of sight.
I told you what you were doing, I warned you what I could do, and you chose not only not to believe that I could or would but also to continue to insult me and other people who have tried with more patience and coherence than I possess to explain things to you. I feel no shame, only pride that so many people, many of whom don't know me from Eve, spoke out about this.
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