Angel -- "The Jasmine Arc: Atheism for Dummies"
POSTED BY: Novagrass
UPDATED: Friday, February 20, 2004 21:39
VIEWED: 20625
PAGE 2 of 7
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Originally posted by BlueSunWorshipper:
Did anybody else notice the bit at the beginning of the Angel episode where Gina spoke to Jasmine's followers in their native language? She spoke to one young woman about her baby in what sounded like Vietnamese, but could have been Mandarin. I laughed after she did that, thinking, "Well, it's not like she hasn't had practice."
Yeah. I think it was Mandarin, but I honestly didn't understand a word of it, so I'm not sure....
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSunWorshipper:
Did anybody else notice the bit at the beginning of the Angel episode where Gina spoke to Jasmine's followers in their native language? She spoke to one young woman about her baby in what sounded like Vietnamese, but could have been Mandarin. I laughed after she did that, thinking, "Well, it's not like she hasn't had practice."
Yeah. I think it was Mandarin, but I honestly didn't understand a word of it, so I'm not sure....
Jasmine did in fact specifically say it was Mandarin! (see the "Gina on Angel" thread).
Radegund
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An interesting side not, the Angel Episode "Magic Bullet" was written (and directed) by co-executive producer Jeffrey Bell. Who worked on the X-Files and turned out some religion themed episodes and, of course, some of the real heavy conspiracy themed episodes on that program, as well.
Keep Flying!
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disclaimer: this would be me venturing into territory that i've tried to stay out of on this board so far because kind of thing tends to cause folk to spontaneously combust. so here goes.
Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass:
So we all know how Joss is the big raging atheist. He has not kept that a big secret at all. But up until now, he's never *really* told a story about faith and the loss of it.
atheism a disbelief in the existence of deity - the doctrine that there is no deity
faith firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
belief a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing.
by Webster's definitions your characterizations vs. faith are bang on. however, i'm of a mind to believe atheists don't generally have the faith to lose in the first place. anyone who says they're an atheist because they don't believe in the Almighty anymore still has the faith. it's just broken or lost. i mean can you really be against something that doesn't exist?
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
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by Webster's definition, atheism is the total absence of belief, not the loss of faith. an atheist generally doesn't have the faith to begin with.
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So we all know how Joss is the big raging atheist. He has not kept that a big secret at all. But up until now, he's never *really* told a story about faith and the loss of it.
I would say Joss is an Agnostic (based on his work anyway). An agnostic is someone who thinks it is impossible to know whether or not there is a god. That a person should think out questions of conduct for himself and be held accountable for his own actions. which is a central theme in much of his work.
but, both atheists and agnostic can start out with full faith in whatever religion and then lose that faith.
as for never doing a story about someone having faith then losing it, well, go back and watch firefly and pay attention to Mal.
Keep Flying!
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Quote:
Originally posted by BRTick:
as for never doing a story about someone having faith then losing it, well, go back and watch firefly and pay attention to Mal.
Mal goes from referring to the Independent reinforcements as angels to forbiding the very idea of God's presence on his ship--if that ain't broken faith, i don't know what is.
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I would say Joss is an Agnostic...is someone who thinks it is impossible to know whether or not there is a god. That a person should think out questions of conduct for himself and be held accountable for his own actions. which is a central theme in much of his work.
that's what I was trying to get across, only you did it much better. i changed my post because of that - i know, bad channain, bad bad - but there's nothing that brews up trouble faster than a discussion of faith and/or religion.
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
I would say Joss is an Agnostic...is someone who thinks it is impossible to know whether or not there is a god. That a person should think out questions of conduct for himself and be held accountable for his own actions. which is a central theme in much of his work.
"I'm a very hard-line angry atheist" Whedon Says "Yet I'm fascinated by the concept of devotion..."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/news.asp?newsid=267
Atheist.
--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--
"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon
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Quote:
Originally posted by BRTick:
as for never doing a story about someone having faith then losing it, well, go back and watch firefly and pay attention to Mal.
BRTICK: Ok, I'm sorry I didn't CLARIFY myself. What I meant was a STORY ARC on it, a metaphorical villain arc on Buffy or Angel. Yes, Mal is an atheist, but his story isn't about BEING an atheist. It's a character trait of his, not his story.
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atheism a disbelief in the existence of deity - the doctrine that there is no deity
faith firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
belief a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing.
i'm of a mind to believe atheists don't generally have the faith to lose in the first place. anyone who says they're an atheist because they don't believe in the Almighty anymore still has the faith. it's just broken or lost. i mean can you really be against something that doesn't exist?
Channain: By this logic, when you lose faith in God, or the belief in God, you become an atheist, someone who does not believe in the existance of a God. Because he's an atheist doesn't mean he's always been an atheist, and I'm confused about your differentiation between loss of faith and the breaking of it. In both cases it was once there, so that it can be lost or broken. Broken faith and lost faith are the same thing to me. Though, I suppose, if you lose faith there's the possibility of finding it... but then again, you can repair broken things as well... so I guess I'm back to them being the same thing.
I once believed in God. I no longer do. I am an atheist. The definition of atheism doesn't stipulate that the atheist NEVER belived in God. Most atheists I know have grown up in a somewhat religious environment, and were at least a little faithful in their younger days.
EDIT: Ignore my confusion, the later posts helped me out.
--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--
"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon
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"I'm a very hard-line angry atheist" Whedon Says "Yet I'm fascinated by the concept of devotion..."
okay, so i'll cheerfully stand corrected. can't vouch for BRtick though, who educated us on the agnostics. speaking from personal experience (which is to say, someone who's been there), i'm still of the opinion that angry atheist is just a colorful way to say broken believer.
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
i'm still of the opinion that angry atheist is a colorful way to say broken believer.
"I'm still flyin'...that's enough." ~ Mal
Hehe, well whatever terminology you use, let's just leave it at Joss doesn't believe in God, atheists don't belive in God, and The Jasmine Arc is a metaphorical journey through becoming an atheist.
--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--
"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon
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