The more I watch Angel....* various spoilers* (No BDM stuff )

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:55
VIEWED: 4953
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AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:56 PM

the more I see 'Firefly'.

I'm catching up w/ Angel by watching the dvds, via Blockbuster. Time and time again, I see glimpses of characters on Angel that I recognize on Firely. The 2 which I find the most obvious are...

Angel = Mal. Often brooding, longing for that which he'll likely never find. Only a few loyal allies around him. Constantly at odds w/ the big nasty bad folk ( W & H and/or The Powers v The Alliance. )On occasion he lets his defenses down and can be quite charming,even fun loving ?

Fred/Dana = River. Young women being locked up and dealing w/ major mental issues seems to be a Joss favorite. In Fred, we have a uniquely intellignet girl who was taken against her will to a horrific place. A place she was eventaully rescued from. Same goes for River. Dana also mirrors River in that she's got a dark side to go along w/ some wicked powers. All 3 were witness to some horror of some sort, and are prone to ramble jibberish that actually makes some kind of sense, for those who can decipher the symbolism.

I know this sort of stuff has been hashed over time and time again, but it may explain why I wasn't able to 'convert' as many fans as I had hoped. Firefly was my 1st real introdution to the Joss Whedon world. I had casually watched B and A before, but not so much that all the layers and meanings sunk in. So, when I saw Firefly, all this stuff was virtualy brand new to me. And I loved it, of course. But when I tried to get some friends of mine as excited about FF as I was, they pretty much balked. Not that they didn't like it so much, but I'm guessing to them, being HUGE B and A fans, it wasn't all that new. The lines which were spoken, the characters and such....stuff that makes Joss so unique ( in my mind, at least ) was kinda old hat to others.

This is NOT to suggest that Joss is tired/ predictable or that he's merely recycling his old material into new packaing. Not in the least. Only that he's got a certain style, which I frankly enjoy. I can stil be honest about pointing certain things... patterns and such, and still be a huge fan.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BECSTHEBEAST

Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:28 PM

i keep hearing the word shiny in angel can never remember which episodes though - but always makes me smile

'forgive my rudeness. i cannot abide useless people'

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 16, 2005 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by becsthebeast:
i keep hearing the word shiny in angel can never remember which episodes though - but always makes me smile

'forgive my rudeness. i cannot abide useless people'

And another thing.... I hear certain phrases and comments in Angel that evoke exactly the same. Just saw an ep from Season 3 where Cordy made mention of 'women folk and men folk'. And I know I'm hearing 'not so much ' far more than I should . Of course, this could easily segue into a thread about things which make us think of Firefly,... like how I met this dancer at a 'gentlemen's club' who bore a fair resemblence to Gina Torres..the dancer's name was - I kid you not... Ariel ( I can't make this sutff up )... but all that's been done.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

GROUNDED

Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:46 PM

The dialogue thing is something that irritates me a little. As Angel went on, characters like Lilah (who had nothing to do with Sunnydale) were spouting Buffyisms left, right and centre.

DIETCOKE

Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:33 PM

Joss has a very distinct way of speaking and thus writing. Is dialog is very recognizable as well as his themes.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

MER

Monday, July 18, 2005 3:22 AM

You know, we all went thru the similar characters thing with Buffy and FF, but not Angel...hmm..

But for one thing, Cordelia's=Jayne b/c she went to Angel's show after Buffy Sea 3 as we all know.

What other Angel Firefly characters can we do?

DIETCOKE

Monday, July 18, 2005 3:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MER:
You know, we all went thru the similar characters thing with Buffy and FF, but not Angel...hmm..

But for one thing, Cordelia's=Jayne b/c she went to Angel's show after Buffy Sea 3 as we all know.

What other Angel Firefly characters can we do?

Well season six, Buffy was very Malish!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

EMMA

Monday, July 18, 2005 7:30 AM

I disagree about Buffy being Mal-ish in S6, S7 yes, but S6 no.

Conversely, I agree with the idea that Fred and River are similar, I had never thought of that before but it does work.

Angel and Mal though - absolutely not, Mal is essentially a good guy trying to be good but having (occasionally) to be a bastard. Angel on the other hand is always bad and struggles to be good. He was a bad human, a bad vampire and as a vampire with a soul he becomes progressively git-like throughout B and A.

With regards to his heroes, he was heavily influenced by British sci-fi which often utilise somewhat depressing archetypes. It is therefore logical that he should do the same. There is nothing unique about the anti-hero type.

As for his style there are loads of writer/directors who are very distinctive. You can spot a James Cameron, Ridley Scott, Tim Burton in the first five minutes but in their own way they are all great. Whedon is no different and I love him for it - bring on the misery!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

FREDIKAYLLOW

Sunday, August 21, 2005 10:26 AM

I'm on a thread revival kick at the moment, and this seems like a good one.

I always thought of Fred as a River/Kaylee mix. River as in everything you mentioned earlier, but Kaylee because she seems to radiate innocence and cheerfulness.
I don't think (at least, I hope not) that Mal is like Buffy in either of the last two seasons. Mostly because I really dislike Buffy (the character) in those seasons. All she ever seemed to do was whine.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 21, 2005 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fredikayllow:
I'm on a thread revival kick at the moment, and this seems like a good one.

I always thought of Fred as a River/Kaylee mix. River as in everything you mentioned earlier, but Kaylee because she seems to radiate innocence and cheerfulness.
I don't think (at least, I hope not) that Mal is like Buffy in either of the last two seasons. Mostly because I really dislike Buffy (the character) in those seasons. All she ever seemed to do was whine.

No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me

Thread revival...heh heh. I like that. And I totally agree about the Fred/ Kaylee comparison. Both Kaylee and Fred come from rural roots, are generally optamistic about folks, and yet aren't utterly naive. Our lil' Kaylee has a thing for cute boys and engine rooms, while Fred had a penchant for 'weed'. (*laughs* Just saw Spin the Bottle..again yesterday ) Also, as Gunn didn't want Fred to kill the professor who sent her to Pylia, Mal was equally concerned about Kaylee using a gun in 'War Stories'.

Oh, and DUH! Fredikayllow - i JUST noticed your tag in full. Lemmie guess it's a combo of ...Fred/Kaylee/Willow ?? Am I right? Did I miss anyone?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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