Harry Potter and the HBP (Spoilers)

POSTED BY: airylli
UPDATED: Friday, September 2, 2005 08:21
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DEANNAMAY

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:32 AM

I think Snape is a good guy. Either Dumbledore was willing to be killed to get Snape in good with Voldemort, or the death was faked (he has a horcrux of his own). Snape was a pain in the butt to Harry, but in the end I think he will be justified. I am not even a Snape fan, but Dumbledore trusted him, and I can't believe this wise old man made that big of a mistake. I also wasn't surprised that the HBP was Snape, I mean, he is the potions master, and I think he planted that book for Harry (or Dumbledore asked him to)

I was pleased about Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione and Lupin/Tonks. Even with death lives move forward. I didn't think it was sexist that Harry breaks things off with Ginny. Any fool already knows how close Hermione and Ron are to Harry, they are already in the danger zone. To Voldemort, Ginny is just an annoying Weasley at this point. Pushing anyone new in his life off as he was off to face Voldemort is a smart idea, in my book.

I will miss the classes, and I do think that everyone else will find a way to help out, whether Harry likes it or not. That is why Harry is different and more powerful than Voldemort, he has people who love him. Voldemort is eternally alone, despite having powerful servants, he trusts no one. In fact having Snape turn on him in the end may be a deciding blow.

This was a transition book, and I think a well done one. The next book is the last one, things needed to be refined, so the last book could be focused on the hunt for Voldemorts horcrux' and the final battle. Not to mention at the end have each start their new lives. Ain't no way we are going to be left wondering what everyone is going to do in the future. Or I am flying to England.

As for Percy, I also think that he will be found to be a good guy. He has been persistantly unlikable and unhelpful. He is a Weasley, and knowing that family, he is a contradiction in terms. I think he is in position for the last battle, somehow.

Anyway, we'll probably have a two year wait for our answers. I know she wanted the last book to be very long, so she could take her time saying goodbye. She said that at her website previously, and I think all the previous characters will get to do something of various importance in the book.

In the end, I think she has provided well for her audience. All books moved things forward, characters learned and grew to their own extent. I have been well pleased with her, and hope she continues in this venue in some manner once Harry's current adventures are completed.

CALLMESERENITY

Monday, July 18, 2005 12:56 AM

Thank you, DeannaMay, that was very well thought out and said most of what I had tried to say a bit ago before my computer went wonky and I lost all I had written.

The only thing I'm having trouble with is believing that Snape is good. I've never liked him, I've always gone soley on the faith that Dumbledore trusts him and I don't want Dumbledore to have made a mistake, but I just do NOT like him. I have never been truly convinced that he is working for the right side. Maybe, after I've had time to grieve and reread...but not yet.

I am very upset and cried my eyes out for the last 2 chapters. I couldn't, wouldn't believe Dumbledore was dead until I saw the body (I see it all in my head, as I'm sure you do.) And then seeing the portrait...that's when I really started sobbing. I had to put the book down.

If I had known I was going to get this emotionally involved in these books (I cried when Harry threw the fit in Dumbledore's office after Sirius died, too) I would have waited until all 7 books were out and read them in one swell foop. The waiting is torture. Book 7 has so much to answer for, so much it will have to accomplish. I trust JK Rowling, I'm just really nervous about how she's going to get us to the end.

"Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us." ~Jerry Garcia

DEANNAMAY

Monday, July 18, 2005 1:57 AM

Callmeserenity, couldn't agree more with you regarding Snape. He is unlikeable, and seriously needs to wash his hair (no wonder he gets no snogging :) I think what Rowling means with him is to say, you can be unlovely in every way, but still end up doing the right thing. I also like how she points out how handsome Tom Riddle was, and intimates that his evil is now written on his face. He was charming, accomplished, and evil from the get go. He is given everything (just like Harry, goes from no life, to the wizardly world), and then he goes and does every wrong thing. Snape is also the product of his upbringing. An unhappy family life, undoubtedly with dark wizard involvement. In a way, you can look at all three characters, Harry, Snape and Voldemort, see similar upbringings and see three different paths. One found friendship, one found teaching, and one just plain sought evil.

I also think that is Snape survives everything and is proven good, he still won't be liked by Harry and all, but perhaps he will find a way to let his past hates go.

Still hoping for Mr. Weasley to end up being Minister of Magic, *crosses fingers*

SONG

Monday, July 18, 2005 2:19 AM

What a marvelous thread. I'm so glad to read that others see Snape as still a good guy working under very deep, deep cover. Dumbledore begging Harry to fetch Snape, and when Snape finally arrives, Dumbledore saying his name in a pleading tone, convince me that Snape's killing Dumbledore was pre-arranged, as a way of avoiding whatever horrors awaited D after drinking all of Voldemort's horcrux-hiding potion. Else why would D have frozen Harry? -- Snape had to be allowed to kill D.

I gotta say, though, the whole Snape-as-Half-Blood-Prince theme did nada for me. Didn't develop the character, didn't move forward the relationship between Harry and Snape. The last-chapter "revelation" about Snape's pureblood mom and Muggle dad was a fizzle -- So The F What, you know??? Very deus ex machina. If someone can expound on why it matters a whit that there was a HBP and Snape was he, I'm listening and curious.

I'm puzzled why others found Harry/Ginny to be out of left field. She clearly had the hugest crush on him forever, and he clearly more than anything wants to belong, really belong, to the Weasley family -- and Ginny is so much more his type than Cho or any of the other girls. I assumed when Ginny was a first-year that eventually they would hook up.

I disagree, however, with the prediction that they will ultimately wind up living happily ever after together. My stepson explained to me years ago that Ron and Hermione are obviously the series's Hans and Leia, destined to be together forever, but that Harry has more the makings of a Frodo. This journey will consume him, if not kill him. Tragic lone hero and all that. Every life lesson/morality tale in each book in the series has him coming to grips a little further with what he has lost, what he is losing, in this grand archetypal battle. Such a figure does not in the end set up housekeeping and raise a hundred fat children. He is the sacrifice that allows the more mundane of us to enjoy life's simpler pleasures.

Of course I hope I'm wrong. But that's the vibe I get from each book, and never more strongly than from this one.

-----
"Is it time to go to sleep again?"
"No, mei-mei. It's time to wake up."

(River and Simon, last scene in "Ariel."

EMMA

Monday, July 18, 2005 6:01 AM

SONG, that is a fascinating response.

I completely agree with you about the HBP. I think both the HBP and Slug Club plotlines were completely useless and the book would have lost nothing if they weren't there. I really don't get either of them especially Slughown. I do have a theory about the HBP though but we will have to see what Book 7 brings. I think that the whole plot was to make everyone think he hates non-pure wizards and was emphasising his wizarding connections (an unnecessarily big red-herring if you ask me). I think, however that he was proud of his father and that is why he chose the HB part. It seems fairly obvious as well that he is so sorry for what he did because he was in love with Lily Potter and her death set him on the path to righteousness. This would also explain why he keeps protecting Harry - even at the very end. Plus, his reaction to being called a coward was so obviously anger at having to be hated by everyone and act as a double-agent but without the good guys even knowing.

I think Harry will go one of two ways - the lone hero as you suggest (in which case I think he will die and everybody else will end up completely happy-ever-after) or he will finally get everything he wants because he has had his friends to support him all along (a bit like Buffy). I thought there would be more deaths in this book and I doubt many more will die in Book 7 - JK seems to have chickened out a bit, wither that or I have seen to much Angel.

However, I still don't get the Harry/Ginny thing. Perhaps, in one way your suggestion about being part of the Weasley family stands. That would explain why he wants to be with her - she is an entrance into what he desparately craves. After OotP I was sure that he would end up with Luna (who would develop into a less fairy-like person) and I still stand with the idea that that would make more sense. Ginny is just too ordinary. Neville and Luna is too easy and obvious and also makes me a bit angry - why should two loners end up together? Surely, after all they have done they deserve to be part of the inner circle?

I am sure I will get shouted down for that one though.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

LIZANNE

Monday, July 18, 2005 6:10 AM

After reading the book I have a new favorite of the six, (used to be PoA). I love love loved it. I enjoyed the humor the most and Ginny absolutely kicks ass. The relationshippy stuff I enjoyed, especially the way Harry and Ginny got together.

I knew who the HBP so early in the book I shocked myself, (I'm usually quite slow with things like that). I too didn't understand what his importance was beyond helping Harry through potions but.. the whole last scene with Snape flew by with me so I have to re-read it. I seriously doubt that Snape is a bad guy. For all the evidence posted here and because I don't want to think of Dumbledore as a dupe.

As to R.A.B and the horcruxes... does anyone remember from book 5 how, when they were cleaning out number twelve Grimmauld Place, they happened upon a locket that couldn't be opened? Hmm..

Jo rocks and I *cannot* wait until book 7. Really really.

Liz
Nathan sat next to me

EMMA

Monday, July 18, 2005 6:40 AM

My God Liz, you have it, especially as RAB is probably Regulus Black. The horcrux is at Grimmauld Place - well done you!

Are we sure Regulus is dead? It would seem a shame

extremely dimensionally transcendental

LIZANNE

Monday, July 18, 2005 8:29 AM

Well, Mundugus had been stealing stuff from number twelve so it's quite possible for it to be gone.

Liz
Nathan sat next to me.

SONG

Monday, July 18, 2005 11:49 AM

Ooh, the locket at Grimmauld Place, just casually snuck in to a previous book. Fits with R.A.B. and everything. Wouldn't that be shiny?

But R.A.B.'s note made it clear s/he would immediately destroy the horcrux, not stash it somewhere for future purpose.

And can you imagine what would have happened with the Slytherin locket just hanging around the Black house all those years? Kreacher would have known, and used it or his knowledge of it, in some way.

D'ya think Voldemort can tell when one of his horcruxes has been moved or destroyed?

-----
"Is it time to go to sleep again?"
"No, mei-mei. It's time to wake up."

(River and Simon, last scene in "Ariel."

FRAY101

Monday, July 18, 2005 11:52 AM

"Everyone" seems to assume RAB is Regalus - which surely means it isn't! Someone on another board has queried whether it could the Bones family, or does it refer to two people (R and B).

Was watching an interview with JKR yesterday and she was asked why Ravenclaw are ignored in the books - she said Ravenclaw will have their day...(wink wink!).

Glad I've decided to go back & read Book 5 - can keep an eye out for lockets!

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